Nope, raid or die is horrible. Having the top level gear locked behind raid-only-content is super lame. So only mythic raiders should have available to them top level power? So those of us who enjoy pushing as high as we are capable of in M+ should just bow to our raider overlords and succumb to the fact that they’ll always be stronger than we are?
No, thank, you.
This week (Tyr/Bursting/Skittish), not even close, no. Last week (Fort/Teeming/Quaking) a +10 was a good deal harder than pretty much anything in Heroic Dazar.
Like I said, I don’t mind +10 being equivalent to Heroic raid. On average at least the difficulty is about at parity, though the week-by-week is…schizophrenic, to say the least. It doesn’t help that there aren’t really any affixes that synergize with Tyrannical that don’t also synergize even nastier with Fort. I don’t recall off the top of my head that any of the +4s interact with bosses at all, so any Tyrannical week is essentially minus one affix and any Fort week is hell.
They kind of need to make affixes with that in mind, TBH. Maybe like everything in the place gets a gradual frenzy while in combat. Annoying with trash, deadly on bosses. Or that every x seconds in combat your max HP reduces (though that makes some fights like Kragg outright impossible at higher keys). Something to fight the notion that every Tyrannical is a push week and every Fort is a cache and done week – and preferably in a way that doesn’t just mean the healer heals more.
right but completely blowing past the point where the 400 ilvl drops have no loot lockout. You can spam a chance of something dropping and titan forging. whereas raiding is a 1 chance per week deal…
Also… lets bring it back down to 415 ok…this is the level we were talking about so how about not moving the goal posts to fit your narrative, because 420 for even mythic raiders is pretty hard. Most people at 420 spam both.
Thats the point. M+ gear plays the rng game and eventually the stats are in favor of the M+ crowd.
getting to 400 can take literally 1 day. getting to 410 a few weeks, and a few months later you can easily achieve 415+ by literally just spamming really easy 10 keys.
this has always been my argument… M+ gear devalues mythic raiding gear. because it’s spammable. seriously stop moving the goal posts bud.
unless you spam m+ 10s… /shrug
what you seem to be hung up on is the fact that you think it’s…
both are wrong. Yes it’s rng based but spamming easy 10’s isn’t hard.
method dictates pve and pvp is run by 3v3 arena which method dominates.
it pretty much is thats why bfa is considered as bad as wod if not worse.
Since when have people been excluded?
Classic?
The very first formal difficulty setting to be added was to dungeons; Heroic a harder version … not an easier one.
Smaller raid sizes were introduced in TBC, Carried on to great success as a standard feature in Wrath. Raids in Wrath were already plenty accessible and widely participated in by players going as far back as 2008. And yet we got Heroic years before LFR.
In Cata, near over 10 years ago, we had the LFD and LFR including everyone.
Subsequently Flex was added as a difficulty above LFR and then Mythic was added to dungeons as well…
If you haven’t gotten the gist of the situation by this point, here is the summary.
The game is and has been historically accessible at the introductory level on all content fronts, so much so, that players are constantly craving for more challenging, inherently less accessible, content.
Heck, the biggest hit from the last expansion wasn’t the Brawlers guild but the Mage Tower. That tells you near all you need to know about what drives players and what kind of activities produce an elated response.
It’s not the accessible ones.
They are there, they are something fun to do but they are not what this game is popular because of or what it’s players get excited over.
Doesnt devalue it all.
Just because you can spam 400 level gear with a chance to forge is not the same as clearing mythic raids where 415 loot is guaranteed.
You are wrong and thats a you problem and not a game problem.
You cant manage your epeen seeing others wearing 415 gear from other content that happened by chance.
just the ilvl is. actually getting the gear isn’t. and if you dont get the piece you want after 300 wipes and 4 weeks on ONE BOSS… you’re SoL…
meanwhile I can do 100 10’s in week and eventually something will titan forge.
Also… azerite gear and neck is static… so you’re alwasy going to have 420 azerite and a high neck… which helps boost a lot of ilvls. even on raiders.
it’s not about an epeen… it’s about the value of your time and effort you put in and the reward you recieve…
I can farm 10’s pretty easily… they are essentially heroic level content. the 410 piece is a catch up mechanic… kinda BLP for m+.
but I can spend months in a raid trying to down one boss then that piece of gear should not be easily replaceable…
and the point is that it is easily replaceable… so the value of it decreases. There’s still value in the achievement. but more and more people are realizing it’s easier to just do m+…
Really?
Prior to IO, item level, aotc and gear score you were physically inspected at the steps of the bank based on your gear to determine if you could join a raid group.
Guilds had looting systems for distribution. If you even able to get in/hang around long enough to get any loot.
All these historic raiding facts excluded massive amounts of players from even seeing a boss inside a raid.
This is why LFR was put into the game so people had an opprtunity to actually see the end of the game they were paying to play.
Dont sit here and pretend like none of the above didnt happen or people werent ridiculed because of their inferior gear. This has always happened and still does.
“Nice logs bro” “dont apply unless 1k IO”
Seriously…
I have to agree with you here. Something has to be done to balance the rewards.
As you said a +10 is on par to the difficulty of a Heroic Raid but without the weekly lockout and without the organizational requirements. It’s crazy that Blizzard hasn’t addressed this.
A return of tier sets with decent set bonuses would have solved this issue without needing to touch mythic+. Guaranteed sockets on raid gear would also be helpful. Then even though the ilvl of mythic+ and mythic raid gear might be equal, the mythic raiders would still have sufficient bonuses to make it worthwhile to seek out raid gear rather than mythic+ gear.
A +10 for even aotc players isnt that hard. The majority of the people playing the game arent aotc players and on a percentage base, even fewer are mythic.
A +10 is hard for the majority of the player base. Why do you think people are selling +10s non-stop. Its not because everyone is face rolling thru it.
What a load of bull.
Most PuGs, even in the infamous era of gearscore, didn’t bother to do any of that.
They took darn near anyone and went with it. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. That was PuG life.
More to the point; players choosing who they want to play with is them being exclusionary for all the right reasons.
How you somehow construe that as a negative is way beyond delusional. Forcing players to play with people they don’t want to wasn’t/isn’t going to benefit anyone.
Doesn’t that make the issue more onerous?
If a +10 isn’t on par to Heroic Raiding and has no loot lockouts and doesn’t come with the headaches of organized Raiding why does it drop Heroic Raid level gear?
Great points. I’d say get rid of Warforging as well.
No. Because I would rather not go back to the days of clearing a raid and having nothing to do due to weekly locks outs.
Are you people really that blind of the past?
Clearly reading isnt your strong suit. At no time did I suggest we should be forced to play with people we dont want to.
Think you are suffering from some delusions on this one bud.
I never said get rid of Mythic Plus just that the rewards need to be more balanced. The current system is busted. No lockouts, quick runs and few organizational requirements are fine but shouldn’t offer equal rewards.
Hardwire is on the right track with Tier sets and Sockets and I’ll reiterate that Warforging needs to go as well.
Why does it need balancing? No one said you have to run heroic raids.
Its something you choose to do.
If people want to run mythic+ 10 and above non stop, that is their choice. You are free to do it as well.
Why are we limiting how other people choose to play the game?
Frankly if the rewards are that much better than mythic raiding then stop doing the mythic raids. No one said you have to be a mythic raider.
Also how about the minority of the mythic+ community that are timing +26s… maybe they should be rewarded gear stronger than mythic raids. Its not fair to them they are locked behind a weekly 410 reward.
You can’t be serious.
Better rewards have always come from harder content and hard isn’t just about difficulty. Organizational difficulty has always factored in the reward structure. In Legion we still had Tier sets and better Trinkets from Raids. Now we don’t even have that.
You can’t be so blind to not see how busted the current M+ reward structure is or you do and don’t care as long as you get your shinies. I have to assume Blizzard realizes this but won’t fix things until 9.0 but something needs to be done.
Well the company was clear saying they were getting away from raid or die and they did.
The pace of the patches the mythic level gear is out dated in 6 months anyways from vedor gear you can farm pearls for.
I am aware, I just dont think its broken so why fix sonething that isnt broken.
They need to fix mythic raiding. They dont need to crush mythic +.
The raids are pretty sad this xpac.