Before your guild fell apart? Both avelpally’s and avelmonk’s sole mythic raid experience is Champion of the Light three times each.
The paly is 413 and the monk is 415. The season is over, the raids are old content, and you’ve barely obtained the minimum ilvl drop from mythic raids on one of them. Your monk only has one 425 piece. The rest are vendor 420s and 410s from your weekly M+. Those didn’t take much “work” but they did take a few months to obtain…either that or you’ve been stuck at 415 for months, which would be a far worse problem for me as a player.
The paly is in a similar situation: stuck at 413, season is over, raid tier is over, and your only 415s come from two rare M+ procs and a 415 from a heroic proc (oddly, this would seem to point to heroics needing a nerf using your logic).
I’m just not seeing how your toons are supporting your position. They seem to be undermining the claim that M+ is too easy to gear up to and past mythic raid levels.
This, honestly it’s a joke that you can get gear better than Heroic raid loot from a +10. It needs to at least be +15 if it should surpass Heroic loot.
+15 +10 +20, all of it just artificial numbers. The problem you seem to be struggling with isn’t the number on the sliding scale but the difficulty of the dungeon. You’re arguing tuning but using the wrong thing contextually to make your point.
What you’re looking for is “10’s should be minimally as difficult as heroic raids if they are to drop equal level loot”
That would be a fair argument. Not pumping it up to an artificial 15. All that would do is cause a huge outcry that 15’s are too hard and should be nerfed. If 10 baseline was difficult (it’s not) then a similar outcry would crop up.
“I don’t think this game should revolve solely around raiding as the means to end game content”
Raid or die needs to, well, die. Some of us don’t wanna put up with 19 people to get something done. Most other games, including MMO games, have moved away from the large-raid-style.
My friends talk, frequently, about how much better this game would be if the raid size were 8-10 man. Having to put up with so many people who irritate you to accomplish something isn’t fun. I can easily put together a group of 8-10 friends whom I enjoy playing with.
Edit: And before you respond. Most of my friends have jumped ship to Final Fantasy already. Which is slowly drawing me over there. The sole reason is smaller group content >>>>>
I don’t have a problem with M+10 matching Heroic, honestly. They’re about the same difficulty on an average week (and on some, mostly Fort, outright harder). Just saying, the goal appears to be to make content desirable that currently isn’t.
Also the only thing keeping you from doing 10-man raids is poor balancing. The mechanical availability is there, just not the tuning.
EDIT: I’m about ready to jump ship too, FWIW. The game seems hell-bent on invalidating its own already-thin current content in favor of chores.
it’s really a shame as well. I logon to do my 2 hour rep grind then log straight over to Final Fantasy when I am finished. Have 100x more fun just doing random nonsense on FF. There feels like a fundamental difference in the two games. WoW just wants to keep you playing, FF wants you to have fun.
Like you have said +10 is too easy, it’s a joke and you don’t even need to finish in time. I said +15 because that’s more difficult and deserving of higher quality loot. Why rework the balance of everything when it’s much more simple to change what drop loot. Make 10-14 Heroic tier and 15+ Mythic or just under it like in s2.
I’ve always been in favor of a more punishing M+ system that has tiered layers. Making say:
5 = normal
10 = heroic
15 = mythic
But scaling them in a manner where they are as difficult and punishing as their raid counter-parts would be, IMO, better. If 15’s were scaled so hard that only 3-5% of the player base could ever hope to reach (let alone complete it). That to be would be ideal.
I understand also why they don’t do that. The complication of a system where it has endless-drops would cause it to be so mandatory that everyone who wants gear would find it to be an absolute necessity. So they chose a middle-ground approach.
They would only be able to do that if they found a way to cap gear like in mythic raids; like a once a week @15+ drop per dungeon style system. Could even maintain the endless drops at the lower heroic-level with said system.
I dunno, just things I ponder that’ll never come to pass.
I don’t know when the “If it takes longer, it’s acceptable” became the prominent mentality to call to the defense of stuff like this on these forums but I just don’t get it.
Look, I don’t care how long it takes. If someone who exclusively does WQ can get a full set of current Mythic quality gear, you’ve done something horribly wrong when creating your rewards structure.
In terms of M+ dungeons.
Spamming M+ for a weekend this season will get you a full set of Heroic quality gear, some inevitable McForge/gem procs are bound to get you equal or greater than Mythic pieces. The cache on top of these procs produces a set of Mythic gear much faster for players than most guild groups of players are able to obtain through their progression.
Not every guild in Mythic is a WF (Or even CE) guild. They aren’t near full clearing the thing from week 1. For many, the pace of rewards from the M+ cache outpaces the rate they earn them from the raid quite handily.
How is that a business stand point?
You think players will stay subscribed longer because they are given Mythic quality gear from lord-knows-what source nowadays?
I don’t know anyone who decides to sub because of that cache or McForging.
/silly
I planned to quit the game because it wasn’t fun-- but then!-- a McForge gave me a 425 so I think i’ll keep giving them money for another month!
/sillyend
From a business stand point, creating fun activities keeps people subscribed to your game. Not showering them in 410 gear that you then completely devalue by introducing a 400 catch up in less than 11 weeks. That’s just how you piss people off in the long term. I.E. BFA in a nut shell with their 30ilvl jumps between Seasons.
The lowest level of Season 2 M+ was 375, higher than the highest level of the previous Season 1 M+. That is absolutely insane no matter how you look at it.
The game has a long history of excluding players. Hence mutli-level raids.
If you are unhappy as a mythic minority then quit.
The game does not revolve around your mythic progression. If you still get geared thru mythic + and still cant clear the mythic raid then whats the problem?
It comfortably did a +19… We didn’t time due to 1 wipe (gameplay fault… not gear…) and 1 of our DPS disconnecting requiring us to 4 man the last two bosses. And before you accuse me of actually doing more content with it… No… This was a one off ‘our tank wasn’t on’ moment where I tanked for the group. Not a regular thing.
All of its gear progression came from 9/9H, 1/9M, Weekly chest, Titan Residuum from weekly chest.
No, they do not. It’s speculation based on the last sect of the PTR build; where the item level was dumped down to approximately where a +6 should be dropping (capped). Like last season did.
Frankly as a Heroic raider this change makes sense to me, the level of M+ required to get the max chest is much more on par with Heroic raiding than it is with Mythic raiding in terms of difficulty, especially since you don’t even need to time the key. It never really made sense to me that I’d get an extra 10 ilvls weekly “just because.”
lol definitely not happening, M+ is still the fastest and most convenient method to gear up and still gets you the best gear outside of Mythic raiding. The weekly chest still rewards risiduum and azerite too.