Meme Specs: Relax, it's not your decision. Let it go 🥳

[Makaio-kiljaeden]

Wait, the forum is full of balance druids wanting to come to your raids and you valiantly fighting them off?

My bad

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

what would you do for meme spec healers? just have them all dps spec but healing with normal healing gear? like ele shamans, shadow priests, ect? There are obvious meme dps/tanks but not so much healer. Unless you just stack all druid healers.

Your raid healers I imagine are:

• A single Ret Paladin using Judgement of Light
• A bunch of Shadow Priests with Vampiric Embrace
• Fill with Druid healers

[Betaplease-azshara]

I think the problem is the pro meme spec people dont think there spec is a mem spec. From what I see if your a shaman you should always be resto or resto/ele for PvP but for Paladin ret is much better than holy for PvP so im not sure why its a meme spec, If I played Ally I would def roll a Ret Pally.

[Krackillz-sargeras]

maybe, MAYBE they could get magmadar, if the dps was high enou… wait, raid full of meme spec…

Think they could kill the first giant pack at the enterance?

[Cladamen-proudmoore]

So you missed the part of the sentence that said…paladins and bears.

Also easy. Bop drops threat. Other paladin grabs. We did it multiple times. It just takes more than 2 braincells to know how to swap as a paladin in vanilla.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

The beauty of all those Druids is that they can combat rez half the raid when it dies.

Though Tranq Shot will be tricky for the melee Hunters to pull off.

[Krackillz-sargeras]

If you really wanna go deep on the meme spec thing, ever hear of meme race? i.e. gnome warrior for PvE or human warlock/mage/priest?

[Priapis-proudmoore (Priapis)]

Min/max wasn’t designed in? Patchwerk says hello.

The minimum raid dps to down patchwerk is less than 400 dps per person. If you’re doing the fight in pre-naxx gear, pures will be pulling double that and hybrids will be pulling around 400-500.

Patchwerk has about 3,850,000 HP according to the wiki. If you have 25 dps in your raid pulling around 800 dps each, that results in a kill time of 192.5 sec (not counting tank dps). If you add in 5 hybrids (at 400 dps) instead of pures, that gives you a kill time of 213.9 seconds. Just a little over 21 seconds extra. That’s still over 200 seconds before he enrages and wipes the raid. If we assume those 5 hybrids only do 300 dps that only bumps the time to kill to 220 seconds (this is still not counting tank dps).
(if we assume average pure dps at 700 dps it becomes 248.4 seconds with hybrids at 300 dps versus 220 seconds with a raid of 25 pures).

If your raid can’t survive that extra 20-30 seconds, is it really the DPS fault?

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

It’s funny (and a little sad) to see people applying Modern WoW philosophy to Classic.

It’s just a video game. Relax and have fun.

[Krackillz-sargeras]

BoP does nothing to your threat, only keeps them from targeting you, you gain all that threat right back as soon as the BoP wears off. and no you didn’t.

[Yogsothòth-tichondrius]

in fairness if I was a full dps furry warrior with 1500 dps I would laugh at people who want me to tank.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

To be fair, power gaming is a concept that pre-dates modern video games in general.

It goes back to the very early days of D&D, and probably even earlier than that.

We don’t call them murder hobos in tabletop RPGs because they’re a lovely bunch of RPers that want to go around helping people with their problems.

[Kolben-icecrown (Kolben)]

You don’t even need to scroll a page to find posts about “viable” specs.

[Kerg-scarlet-crusade]

… it was the raid leaders ego and attitude of not using me that lead to their eventual downfall, because they couldn’t respect other players who proved them wrong

I see the same thing happening in Classic WoW, in which there are going to be some very solid “non-cookie cutter” specs that are going to do just as well if not out perform in many areas of raiding, but because of elitist, ego driven mind sets, will still be scoffed at because #reasons.

Except in Classic, this is not just a matter of ignorant raid leaders. Moonkin and Elemental Shaman, etc., are simply mathematically incapable of putting out sustained DPS over a long fight that is comparable to other competent pure DPS classes. And it doesn’t matter how talented or driven the “meme spec” player is. They will fall well short, because it is simply impossible to overcome the mechanics working against them.

[Cladamen-proudmoore]

Actually no you dont. If you aren’t atracking the mob you don’t get that threat back.

Easy tank swap between paladins.

Paladin a is tanking boss waiting for swap
Paladin b is in place
Paladin a bops and stands back not attacking
Paladin b overtakes paladin a threat
Paladin a resumes dmging boss.

We did this literally on every pull and it worked every time.

However if you want the kings of threat use a bear who tosses rejuves around right before the pull. That threat sky rockets. You won’t be pulling off them.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

Relax and have fun.

I like that pro-meme spec folks always think this is a valid response.

Do you not think it’s possible to relax and have fun but still not want meme specs DPSing in your raid?

Personally, I find it far more relaxing and fun to be able to clear content quickly and easily than to struggle for hours because you brought a bunch of meme specs.

[Bricklethumb-anvilmar]

No one during the true Vanilla years of the game used the word “meme” spec.

Play what you want.

“Meme” spec? This must be some BFA lingo these modern retail pups like to throw around. Never heard of it in OG Vanilla.

Pretty sure this is from the pserver crowd. Cause they think they have everything figured out.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

No one during the true Vanilla years of the game used the word “meme” spec.

Meme wasn’t really a word that got used back then, but the sentiment existed during Vanilla.

We just called it lolret instead, and told them we have this dress they’d look absolutely wonderful in.

In the back of the raid.

[Kirr-aerie-peak]

The irony here is the ones calling out meme specs are the ones trying to be helpful.

Even though I’m generally pro-meme-spec this is a valid point. For the record, I’d like to say that some vanilla specs are sub-par for raiding, and this includes all the non-healing specs of any class that is capable of healing – except 1 Shadow Priest per raid.

Some caveats and additions:

• Druid Bear tanks, while generally inferior to Warriors, are far superior to Prot Paladins.
• 1 Enhancement Shaman is sort of OK. A Ret Paladin OTOH is never good.
• For Alliance Priests, Dwarf is best, Human is OK, and Night Elf is bad. Other classes have race choices that matter but none as much as this.

[Cladamen-proudmoore]

The pserver crowd literally know nothing about actual vanilla and will most likely be the first to leave due to them being bad and not knowing real vanilla.