For a first attempt kill on a boss, sure I get that.
But say on the 11th week of having a raid on farm and plenty gear drops for the guild, these specs surely can join.
Do as you please, exclude them from your specific guild if you wish.
But the point here is these specs will exist in the game, because people find them fun. Donât play with them if it somehow actually angers you that much.
You want the group to sacrifice for the single person⊠how is that in any way the same as the way I see it? 
itâs not just about being able to technically down bosses, even if we had immortality buffs on guild firsts, if people donât want to waste their time carrying around people who arenât pulling their weight they shouldnât have to. if the raid agrees that itâs fine, then itâs fine, but itâs a group decision not your personal decision.
Yep I can agree with that
If the group needs cohesion, needs to remain together, then the group must accommodate individual needs. Be rigid on how the individuals must play, and the raid group will blow apart.
I suspect, though only time will tell, that the Classic community will generally be less tolerant of dictatorial guild bosses. Many of us are older now and may have less patience with authoritarians than we did when younger.
Eventually someone will start a guild that accepts meme spec players. And then it will be more fun because you wonât be forced to play a personalized character by a suggested template.
These guilds will be there from the beginning.
MC was always easy, but having 16 debuff slots instead of 8 at launch is going to make it that much easier, allowing more room for said specs.
This whole meme spec argument is hilarious. I led a raid guild in vanilla. We cleared MC, Bwl, Aq40 except last boss.
I had more then a few of these so-called meme specs in my raids. Guess what? We still cleared the content. Most of the people in non optimal specs, outperformed others, with what everyone says, are the only choice for their class.
On my server people thought my priest was holy spec. Nope, and i still outhealed any other priestâŠno contest
NO!
Jk, carry onâŠ
This is specifically why I joined a guild where it was clear from the very start that we are not going to be bringing these specs to raid. So no feelings are hurt when/if someone tries to.
Its not about authoritarian guild leaders, its about playing with like minded people. If you want to play a ret paladin donât join a guild that doesnât allow them and expect to raid. If you do that, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Individual needs? So a player NEEDS to play a certain meme spec now? And every guild and every raid needs to accommodate them?
That is just untrue, many if not all of the top guilds in the world throughout the long history of WoW has done this very thing and they have been very successful with it.
Again the key is to play with like-minded people, I choose to play with a group of people who want to push things to the extreme, to plan out debuff slots, stack raid comps, make sure everyone is doing their part to push for excellence. That is fun for us⊠Its not for everyone but it works for me and the group I will be playing with.
Find a casual group that are lax about their raid comp and play with them.
Are you saying that ninjaing loot is not following âmyâ rules?
I do have pretty total contempt for anybody who joins a group with certain loot rules and then violates them, yes.
I love this
I see a lot of posts of people saying they hate raid and dungeon⊠they will only do « world content » Pvp is okay but if they expect classic to be like retail where you can do your daily chores and get gear similar to a mythic player. Theyâre in for a rude awakening
No one has ever said you canât play a meme spec. We just said stop whining when we donât let you in our groups. Classic is about playing well with others.
Something an entire generation is about to learn the hard way.
haha cute, I would love to see one of those guilds prove all these blowhards wrong. Classic raids are not hard they just need dedicated people completing the few game mechanics there are.
GL on 4 horseman with 4 bear and 4 paladin tanks. oh wait, you cant use paladins because they lack a taunt. GL on 4 horseman with 8 bear tanks.
Here is a shocking suggestion, what if they fixed paladin and bear tanks? =OO
Iâll say it again in this thread: performance is relative. If youâre headed into naxx and your fury warrior is pulling 1000 dps and your mages are pulling 800, why bring the mage and not find another fury warrior.
This argument can be used against the optimal specs of classes as well. It is especially sad when you do the enrage timer math and realize that the minimum dps is quite a bit lower and most non-optimal specs can reach the min numbers with effort.
The irony here is the ones calling out meme specs are the ones trying to be helpful. I canât imagine how itâd feel to spend 250+ hours getting to 60 then not being able to play the role you want. I donât care who plays a meme spec, less competition for me in raid spots.