‘Eats Popcorn while reading’ (Not really, but you get the intent.)
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+1 support all the way. Somebody once showed me fan mockups of Ogre models that were basically Kul Tirans with Ogre faces. Not going to lie, they looked better than actual Kul Tiran humans to me. Would anybody happen to have those on hand?
Playable Ogres would actually make me reconsider my choice of playing Alliance exclusively.
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I can’t post links, outside of youtube videos apparently, but if you google “ogre kul tiran model” theres a result from MMO Champion’s forums that had some images there. Might be what you’re talking about.
On another note, a few comments about what I talked before…
The two events I mentioned could be wide scale battles with several players out in the open. This is something that occurred right before Cataclysm, and were pretty epic back in the day. Thus the “pre-expansion hype” I mentioned. It would be a combination questline and scenario with huge groups of NPC’s and players fighting against a huge group of mobs. It’d be neat to bring it back, and obviously there would be events for the Alliance showing how the Vrykul join them.
An argument can also be made for destroying the dragonkin mobs outright during this event, but given that they factor so heavily into the Stonemaul Clan lore, I feel like finishing them off may be better in the questline for newbie Ogres. This is similar to the newbie Troll questline, where it ends with a standoff with the naga sea witch from Warcraft III.
Also a note about Megs and why she has the Dunemaul there. Megs likely has an interest in Dire Maul, and would be the reason the Bilgewater would have groups of Goblins ready to help excavate it. So right after getting the Dunemaul into the Horde, she sends them to Feralas to assist the Stonemaul there. This explains why she is there and what she has been up to.
As for the Draenor Ogres, them being sent recently stems from not quite trusting them in a hot zone like in BfA areas. Thus, the leader of the Mag’Har have sent them to assist in Feralas to prove themselves. They do need a home and a place to live, so they would oblige and prove themselves in the Dire Maul scenario I typed.
The Gordunni join as a factor of being there, and references the questline where a player character becomes their king. I don’t really have the heart to want to wipe them out, and even though they’ve been a nuisance to the Horde, I think it’s better to insert a new king and induct them into the Horde. They’ll be a huge asset in Feralas against the Alliance with all the territory they have, and if they’re like Glubtok in Westfall, they can be reasonable:
“Wait, yoo mean me have all dey food and drink me want, can watch fights whenever me want, and get loads of shines for jus bashin’ stuffs? Ok, me join! Me follow new king and join Horde!”
Thus the Ogre faction in the Horde will consist of Stonemaul, Dunemaul, Gordunni, and Draenor Ogres. Would any other clans join? It’s possible, but as I said, I don’t expect every clan to just join outright. If it fits the narrative, I’ll consider it, such as the Crushridge, who were part of the Stonemaul before, helping to overthrow Sylvanas, for example. They won’t join at all unless Sylvanas is not presently warchief or not a part of the Horde.
Likely, more fleshing out needs to be done, which I’ll do on occasions. Right now, I’m thinking more on the newbie Ogre questlines, and all this scenario-planning has been really fun!
There’s a few Ogre Clans here and there that might be viable to recruit.
There’s a few Clans of Ogres in the Outlands that might be a good choice.
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It is possible to get more clans, but it could also be a “too many cooks in the kitchen” scenario. Plus, a lot of clans are known from just taking power from others for the sake of growing their own empire or for being on the top. Any clan that would join needs to be part of a pre-expansion scenario. Especially if each clan is going to have any customization specific to said clan in some way. Plus, what to do with the different leaders to keep the clans in check? As I mentioned, if it fits the narrative, the more the better.
One thing I will say is that the Stonemaul have had enough with corrupt clan leaders, so measures would be taken to make sure it never happens again. Thus, I would not want any Ogre clan leader to turn against the Horde after joining it. Consider it a checks and balance thing, where if someone tries something, they’ll just get ganged up on and killed. Not like they’re going to get anywhere, anyway.
Speaking of which, clan leaders! Tharg is the obvious Stonemaul leader, and serves as the main leader/Ogre representation. In my scenario, he put Draz’Zilb in charge of the Gordunni. The problem is…Dunemaul don’t really have their own clan leader, and I don’t think the Draenor Ogres that left with the Mag’Har have one either.
The Dunemaul leader can just be as easy as Megs appointing a Dunemaul Ogre she trusts to be loyal and one she can have some sway over. As for the Draenor Ogres, unless I am missing someone, a new leader would have to be created and represented, along with the new Dunemaul leader, during the Dire Maul portion of the second scenario I made up. Since they really need a home and food, they would be loyal to the Horde, and the leader would be humble and working to prove their clan.
So what to do once the Ogres join the Horde with four clan leaders? In this case, I assume that an Ogre council would work fine. It’d be similar to the Dwarf council, though Tharg would be considered the “leader” or the one who represents the Ogres as a whole. It fits the “checks and balances” aspect I mentioned, as Tharg would want to prevent anything happening like with the Stonemaul ever again.
Not perfect, but it works, in my opinion!
I like the Ogre Council Idea, it’s weird and it’s great.
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So after all is said and done, the time between the pre-expansion events and the expansion launches is time that the new Ogre village is being worked in Dustwallow Marsh. The village is close to being finished when players create their new Ogres, who hear the following as their intro text:
Tharg: We Ogres. We strong. We endured many tings, and now…it be our time. All of us together now. Stonemaul. Dunemaul. Gordunni. Gorian (Draenor Ogres). You now belong. Da Horde is our home, and da world soon know da might of da Ogres. You go now. You help da Horde. You let dem know we always tankful of dere help and we be proud ta be Horde. Show dem lie-ense (Alliance) wat it means to be Ogre. FO DA HORDE!
Thus, new Ogres start in the new Stonemaul village being close to being rebuilt. There are some huts and vendors, with different mobs like dragonkin on spikes here and there.
As a new Ogre player character, you’re tasked at first with assisting the finishing touches of the new Stonemaul village. You’ll get the usual quest types: Bash pests (spiders, crocolisks, raptors), gather meat, get items for construction, ceremonies for the deceased, etc. I’ll be focusing on the main storyline for the questline.
For the different clans, they are represented here, and are assisting with the construction both for the Ogres in general and also for the Horde, who want more of a presence here because of the naga that appeared before.
The first part will involve the remaining dragonkin mobs. At a certain point, they’re going to launch an attack on the new village, which you help fight off. Tharg is obviously angry, and decides that this time, they’re going to regret ever attacking them. He will not lose his home again.
This leads into a questline where you go to Onxia’s lair, and find that theres strong activity going on here. So you slaughter all the mobs here and eventually enter the lair. The Ogres then discover that there is a new leader of the dragonkin here that is a fully fledged and evil dragon.
The leader’s identity could be done in different ways, and I don’t have anyone specific in mind, but the one thing for certain is that this leader wants to take over the land and assert dominance. This leads into a fight against said dragon with you, Tharg, and some Ogre grunts and magic users.
Eventually, when the dragon’s health gets right to the end, Tharg just jumps onto the head of the dragon, and just starts smashing and stabbing the head with his weapons, letting out a huge warcry. This fells the dragon, and the Ogres are now victorious. Tharg orders the Ogres to drag that body back to the village. They’re going to hang its remains outside, with the body eventually becoming a skeleton. The Stonemaul have finally gotten their revenge.
And this leads into the Ogre victory party! The village is finished, they have defeated their old enemy, they are officially Horde now, and it’s time to party! All the Ogres are dancing, drinking, eating, and the Goblins have disco balls with funky music to add to this.
As part of the victory party, the Ogre Contests occur, where you have to win all the events that are part of it. I’m sure more can be created, but I did think of another one:
Spider Squish
All the spiders from the top-western area have been a nuisance, so the Ogres made a game of it. The goal is to squish as many spiders as possible. Small spiders get to be stomped, but the bigger ones involve you jumping up in the air and butt-stomping them, where they explode and you land right back on your feet. Bigger spiders give more points.
Eventually, the player character wins the contest games, everyone gets drunk, and pass out. This leads into the next part of the questline.
What to do with Theramore?
Lets assume Sylvanas is still warchief at this time. Lets also assume that the Horde want to make a port in Dustwallow, where the Ogres would start helping in ships being made.
The Alliance is of course spying on the Ogre developments, after the whole Dire Maul incident from before. They also are freaking out that there is now an Ogre army, and they’re expanding rapidly and towards where Theramore was. They decide to take action and reclaim Theramore, so they can combat the Ogres and hope to get a port again to get an army to combat the Horde in both sides of Feralas.
So they’ve reclaimed the area and are setting up forts from the structures that use to be there, and when the Ogres are passed out from the victory party, they go to attack. The Ogres quickly sober up and get into action against the Alliance, fending them off.
The next questline involves you fighting off the Alliance and driving them out of Dustwallow Marsh. It can be a hard decision, but since the Alliance is trying to gain a foothold at Theramore, and given the naga threat, the Horde decides to build their port right on the remains of Theramore. This serves to fuel the fight against the Alliance and, if Sylvanas is warchief, could just be an order from her since the whole kerfuffle with Baine meeting with Jaina occurred here. So it prevents that from happening again with anyone else.
As the questline occurs, eventually the Vrykul arrive by sea, and go to assist the Alliance there. This leads into a huge battle. Eventually, the Kul Tirans and Vrykul use their mist magic and totems to try to turn the tides of battle, only for the San’layn, if they’ve become an allied race, to just turn into bats and use their echolocation to stop that nonsense. If Gilgoblins became an allied race, they should make an appearance and assist in the battle. The battle ends with the Horde winning and a port area is quickly made after another Ogre party where you pass out drunk.
Eventually you wake up and the new port is completed. You’re then sent to Orgimmar to report to the warchief about the port’s creation. The warchief then sends you to the signpost outside, much like you’re sent to as an allied race, to pick an area to assist the Horde in other locations. By now, the player character should be close to level 20.
I did mention Mudsprocket and profit opportunities. Mudsprocket is a neutral Goblin city, and while they can offer quests still during the newbie Ogres questlines, they should be making a killing off selling supplies and construction parts to the Horde. So much that the head honco there should be decked out in bling and be cool with future profit opportunities now that the Horde has a port there.
Thats a general idea how the newbie Ogre questline should go. I will admit, there are a lot of flaws and plenty of things that are debatable, but it closes the book on the dragonkin mobs there and helps drive the Alliance out of the area while introducing the Vrykul as a rival to the Ogres.
All in all, a fun scenario to think of and type out!
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So if Ogres became a new race, as opposed to an allied race, it still raises the question of a 2-headed customization option.
On one hand, I’d like to think that coming with an expansion means that a lot of time would be given to create what is needed to have the 2-headed option. On the other hand, I still see it as being very difficult and time consuming to design and code, let alone take every helmet model in the game, as well as future helmet models, and make it work with both heads.
There is also the question of how head customization would work. Could you design both heads separately? Would the second head’s design be based on the first head? Seems like a challenge to me.
I may still be of the mindset that we’d only see playable Ogres with just one head…at least at first. Given how difficult it would be to design 2-headed Ogres, I could see a questline given down the road that shows the process of how Ogres get two heads, which you unlock the customization and can make new Ogres with two heads or go to the barber shop to make existing Ogres have two heads. This would give time to actually make the customization work and test it with all the helmet graphics.
As stated before, I personally would keep my Ogre character with just one head, so not having a 2-headed option wouldn’t really bother me. If they did manage to make it work, though, I’d be curious to see how they accomplished it and the end results.
So enough time has passed that I felt another reply is reasonable, and this time I wanted to look at another elephant in the room people address with Ogres being playable: Height.
People expect Ogres to just be massive, not fitting in the doors, etc. Of course, we know from different mobs in the game, Ogres come in different sizes. We’d want the playable Ogres to be decently sized, but not too small. So whats the best size for playable Ogres, then?
I would say to make them as big as the male Kul tirans, if not a bit bigger. That should be decently sized, and there are items in the game that grow the player character if people want to be bigger Ogres. There could even be a racial that grows the Ogre a bit more and gives them some some more strength and haste for a few seconds.
It seems to me that height shouldn’t be too much of an issue. After all, a lot of NPC’s tower over others when they aren’t suppose to be that big for gameplay purposes. Height has been a weird thing for many characters or mobs, with no real explanation at all in-game.
With that said, big Ogres with items to make even bigger Ogres works for me!
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The flagon of mead toy makes for a pretty good height for a Vrykul, even their tables in the Warrior class hall are of a more appropriate height compared to the toy form rather than the actual Titanforged NPCs in the area. This would be a great height for both Vrykul and Ogres as it’s still considerably bigger than a Kul Tiran. They come up to about the breast, so still shoulders and head taller.
I’ve not found any issues with doors yet either.
The only thing is you feel a little slow when running, and I’ve wondered if maybe 5% run speed increase as a passive racial (perhaps disabled during PvP) would be a good idea. Call it Long Legged or something.
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On one hand, being slow while running is part of being an Ogre, who would only be running if they saw a big drumstick of meat or a keg of ale, but on the other hand, I could see being slow while running being a turn off for some people. It doesn’t seem too bad around the male Kul Tiran height, but I suppose it could be taken into consideration for heights about that. We want them to be decently sized, and while seemingly running slow just adds to the character to me, people generally would want them to run at a decent perceived pace.
On another note, I’ve been toying with the idea of taking support for playable Ogres to the next level and possibly doing something similar to the Vulpera’s Foxtober event, where people got illusioned up and ran around Orgimmar.
Of course, Ogres don’t have anywhere near the popularity of Vulpera, but they are a true Horde race, as in having been part of it since its creation and were almost playable in Cataclysm, and have had a decent amount of support and requests for them to be playable. I am sure there are some people that would like this event, however.
Another issue is that a lot of Ogre illusion toys seem to be unobtainable, most of them being related to the card game. Theres at least one, Korvork illusion if I recall correctly, but finding out other illusion items/toys might become an issue.
Theres also the idea of what exactly to do. Part of me thought that a march around Orgimmar, maybe two laps, would call attention and not be intrusive to other players, but again, I don’t think illusion items would last that long, and they would have cooldowns and such. We could always just have an Ogre “beach” party also in Orgimmar, or even an actual beach area like in Tanaris, and have different toys, like the Ogre fight toy, and food and kegs being dropped. Regardless, we want to raise awareness for Ogres being a wanted race, but not be obnoxious about it to those just passing by.
Something also to note is that if we did do something like this, it wouldn’t be for awhile. In fact, I’d have some free time in July, and what better way to celebrate the Summer time than with an Ogre party of sorts? The point is it’ll be awhile for anything to come into fruition, also depending on when 8.2 actually lands on live servers.
I’ll try to do some more research on illusion items when I can, term paper and then finals will be killing a lot of my free time, but I am open to suggestions if anyone is interested.
Right now, just consider it toying with the idea. Unless we have something more concrete, we’ll advertise elsewhere later on if we can figure something out.
We could call it Ogrepalooza or something as amusing perhaps? It’d be for fun and a way to show the interest in Ogres as a playable race.
So in thinking about the idea of multiple clans for playable Ogres, I figured it would be a good idea to implement them in some fashion similar to the Zandalari and their loas.
RPers can still RP as whatever clan they like, and this would just offer some minor buff depending on what the player wants to spec their Ogres. Like the Zandalari, you can pledge to a clan every few days.
While I am sure there can be something more creative, I’ve thought of something for at least two clans:
Stonemaul Clan: Reduces damage taken by a percentage. This clan has been through a lot of rough times and survive in a swamp. Seems like a race that would be able to withstand damage to me.
Gordunni Clan: This would be for combat oriented characters. They can increase haste or critical strike chance, referenced by their love of fighting.
Which means the Dunemaul and Gorien (Draenor) clans would need fitting buffs as well. I’ll have to think on it more later, but I would like to hear suggestions if anyone has any. The buffs should be something any class/spec can utilize.
With both the Ogre and High elf thread being shared around it’s got my imagination going about like a Warcraft 2 styled event where we got both, it’d be great.
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Sign me up for this.
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Well the thing about that, and this goes for any race paired with the High Elves…
Ogre 1: Ayyy, we’s fine-lee playables!
Ogre 2: Wait. If we’s playables…den who did lie-ence get?
(A giant army of High Elves appear, covering across the land, weapons pointed at the small group of Ogres)
Ogre 2: Aww crunch berries!
Not to say that it wouldn’t be a neat combination, of course. To me, Ogres and Forest Trolls on the Horde and High Elves and Wild Hammer Dwarves would “complete” both factions.
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Having re-done the Dustwallow quests on an alt, it seems as though Onyxia’s eggs aren’t entirely destroyed. Thus, I feel like whether Ogres become an allied race or a full new race, a dragon fight should be involved.
This would allow the Stonemaul clan, in particular, to get some revenge, and it even further gives them a place in the Horde. In my scenarios, the dragon in question should just be an offspring from Onyxia, trying to regather the dragonkin mobs and rise to power. This is a reason that they might consider dealing with the naga to help remove the Horde out of the area, while the naga want to get a foothold there for nefarious purposes.
The dragon fight can work either at the end of an allied race questline, a pre-expansion event, or like I had it in the Ogre newbie questlines. On one hand, having a world boss as an event, where anyone of any level can join, with a bunch of Ogres and Horde players sounds like an awesome thing. On the other, having it with just Ogre players just makes the playable Ogre clans seem that much stronger.
There are so many different ways to go about it. It leads to many fun possibilities!
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I imagine that playable Orges would be at least slightly taller than Tauren, as long as that doesn’t cause an issue. They should definitely be the largest playable race
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Edit: I may have gotten some confusion with Arathi and Alterac. I’ll try to make an updated post later on to make corrections, if needed. This is what happens when you wake up at 3 AM and can’t sleep. Original post as follows:
And with this new post, we’ve hit over 400 posts in the thread! Huzzah! Hopefully we’ll see more be added as time goes on!
Today’s thought is regarding a 5th potential Ogre clan that I mentioned before that could join the Horde…but it can be a bit tricky to work with. That clan is the Crushridge Clan.
The Crushridge Clan was said to be part of the Stonemaul clan before they split. The Stonemaul traveled to Kalimdor while the other half stayed in Lordaeron and became the Crushridge Clan. However, the clan was soon under the control of Sylvanas, before she joined the Horde, by possession. They were freed when the leader, Mug’thol, got the Crown of Will and tried it on. This of course, really cheesed off the Ogre clan, and they stomped off to Arathi. Mug’thol is said to still be alive, commanding Or’Kalar who commands some of the Boulderfist clan but apparently not the entire clan.
Something of interest is the following from Wowpedia under a “Speculation” section:
" It is unclear whether the Crushridge ogres were previously from Mug’thol’s Stonemaul Clan or a clan that Mug’thol took over."
It could easily be written that they use to be part of the Stonemaul clan, and while I am unsure if there is an official reason why they split, I’m sure there could be one that would be made up that wouldn’t make them blood sworn enemies.
Getting this clan into the Horde would give both some benefits. The Crushridge could be having problems keeping territory, between fighting the Syndicate and the Alliance there, and with the Horde stretched thin thanks to BfA events, it would help give them more of a presence in Alterac Valley, in the mountains specifically for several advantages.
Of course, the biggest problem with this clan is that Sylvanas is currently the warchief, and they would never join the Horde, Stonemaul relatives or not, with her in the Horde, let alone as the leader. If the plan with lore is leading towards Sylvanas eventually being removed entirely from the Horde, then they might be more willing to help.
I’ll need to do some more research to make up a scenario, but if there is a coup against Sylvanas, then the Crushridge could be written into the playable Ogre clans I mentioned before. I’m sure their leader would love to get revenge against her, and since the Stonemaul has an emissary in Pandaria, I don’t see why they couldn’t try to contact their former clan relatives in some fashion and get assistance in removing Sylvanas. In return, they get Horde protection, can help get more territory in Alterac, and a better chance of survival.
Since the Horde is losing territory in the Eastern Kingdoms continent, it would be in their best interest to see how they can maintain control over there, and they’ll need allies to do it.
At any rate, as mentioned, I’ll need to do some more research to see how it could be fleshed out. I’m sure there could be some things I am overlooking, and I’ll also need to see what the Boulderfist clan’s relation to the Crushridge clan is, since at least part of the Boulderfist is under the command of the Crushridge clan.
Seems like I got some new material to work with to add to my scenarios. ^^
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Perhaps these Ogres would be more willing to help of the Horde’s goal became to remove Sylvanas from power? I know people don’t want Garrosh 2.0, but it sure looks like we’re heading there
I’m really enjoying the love you’re putting into this thread, keep it up! Ogres seems like such an obvious Horde race to me, I’m sure Blizz is at least considering them right now!
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Edit: Another edit to say that I may have gotten some confusion with Arathi and Alterac. I’ll try to make an updated post later on to make corrections, if needed. This is what happens when you wake up at 3 AM and can’t sleep. Original post as follows:
I would hope this thread has been noticed by Blizzard and may inspire them to consider adding Ogres in the near future. It’s a reason I keep trying to add more to here. ^^
Thinking on it more, the Crushridge clan need to be put in a situation that would require them to be more likely to seek help from the Horde, or at least consider it if contacted by the Horde, and to another extent the Boulderfist clan as well which I need to research to see how much of a possibility that is. As stated before, part of the Boulderfist is lead by someone taking commands from the leader of the Crushridge clan.
Thus, either a questline that occurs before the allied race unlock questline or a third pre-expansion event could involve a heavy attack on Alterac Valley from the Alliance and Syndicate that causes the Ogre clans in the area to run away. Having lost their territory, they now have a reason to be open to the Horde contacting them by a Stonemaul emissary.
Assuming a coup is in the works, the Horde could just send player characters to help the clans there. For the Crushridge in particular, they get a chance to get their territory back and assist in defeating Sylvanas as revenge. The events involved could be a massive attack between Horde and Alliance, with the Syndicate taking advantage of the situation. I don’t see the Horde completely taking over the area this time, and likely they would lose more control of the area, but it gives a reason why the Ogre clans in the area would join up with them.
Another point to mention is that their beef would likely be specifically with Sylvanas, and not the Forsaken in general. Sylvanas is the one that caused problems with the Crushridge clan, and the relationship between the Forsaken and Crushridge could be at worse a begrudgingly dubious relationship. If Sylvanas was removed and gone, then likely the Crushridge would be more concerned with helping the Horde maintain presence in Alterac while wanting to get territory back, and would just accept the help from the Forsaken still in the Horde.
There is a lot to consider to patch up any problems this line of thinking would have, so right now, this is all food for thought as I think up a scenario. ^^