And you thought this was a good enough deal to click that Join Guild button? I think I would’ve laughed, said no thanks, and continued my search for a good guild. But I am saddened to hear you gave up on that. Having a good guild and good people to play with make the game 1000x better. Pug life is for the birds.
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I would think that’s how most people get in guilds through playing with people and/or applying to join?
why this rant ? ion mentioned many times , they will never go back to master loot
“It was kinda funny because they poached me from LFG when they were a healer short, and offered me a spot on their roster. I wasn’t made aware of their policies until after I had joined.”
I agree. Sadly, I am no longer able to commit to a raid schedule, and so pug life it is. But I still veto against the return of ML, if not to protect good guilds from imploding due to loot drama.
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I remember almost ever PuG I joined in Wrath had SOMETHING on reserve. Kinda glad that isn’t possible.
Of course if ML was to return PuG leaders shouldn’t be able to use it to stop that.
Also shameless plug for Unrestricted PL before ML 
Haven’t been keeping up with the whole thread but I think Yolva is saying last time PuGs could do ML they usually always did. Of course they couldn’t in Legion because that’s when the PL restrictions came into play so odd that you are trying to do a gotcha moment.
Also, I joined some guild PuGs and they used ML (in Legion) and if they really wanted the item It didn’t matter if I rolled and won as they would tell me they were taking for the guild. I knew what I was getting into but that’s the only example I can tell you, if ML comes back make it only for 100% guild groups and don’t deprive PuG players because you are at a 80 or 90% threshold (whichever it was).
Unrestricted PL . In fact Unrestricted PL is better because you can still game the chances by doing your 20x armor class runs to funnel versus the randomization of ML loot drops.
Feel like that’s a win win. PL for those who want it and gameable ML with extra steps for those who want to do that.
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Yeah I don’t really consider Cash country but some sort of mix of multiple genres, from Gospel to rock (even back when rock was considered evil LMAO)
Ultimately, the system shouldn’t allow players to take advantage of others. This ultimately reflects bad on Blizzard and the game. Blizzard even stated their adjenda for the game was to be fully inclusive of everyone and this does not line up with being fully inclusive.
I Played wrath and “reserved” was never a thing.
Well, if a PuG leader turns on master loot, you can always leave the raid.
For sure there will be weak auras that would highlight that the current loot system is Master Loot and it would scream in your screen if that happened (or they could implement that in the game).
Unrestricted PL is not ok. The fact that you can’t trade the items you gain in PL when they are actually an upgrade for you is what makes Personal Loot great.
I would prefer Master Loot to come back and keep Personal Loot.
From every single argument about not having Master Loot, everyone seem to be saying that Master Loot is terrible and no one wants it back.
Then my next argument is: if Master Loot is so terrible, then it will be no problem if it is added back, because no one will want to group when Master Loot is enabled, so… what is the point?
Just like I said before.
If you see Master Loot, leave the group. Make your own group with Personal Loot, and everyone who dislikes Master Loot (like you), will join instantly your run over the one with Master Loot… right?
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I think just watching the cancer that has developed since Asmondgolds interview will at least make them slow walk and water down the living hell out of it
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The problem was that EVERY pug group had ML enabled. You had to ask what items were reserved, and hope that they’d keep their word.
Inb4 “just make your own groups!11”
Make your own group without master loot.
Everyone will join your group because everyone haters Master Loot.
You already know the solution to your problems.
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yep literally every raid guild that I was ever a member of back in the day broke up because somebody decided to get whiny about loot.
I’d rather them be mad at their bad luck and blizzard systems than starting arguments on discord.
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I wouldn’t call that no reason. Seems a pretty legit reason. You joined their guild to make up their roster for raiding, then decided not to raid with them and pugged instead. Admittedly the guild should have made it clearer that trials would be bottom priority for loot for 2 weeks. but the player with concerns could also have asked questions instead of just randomly joining. Say what you will about guilds that used to ask for applications (inb4 “omg its wow not a job” because 10 minutes filling out a few questions is too much to ask) but at least they laid the cards on the table.
I really don’t see why guild groups shouldn’t have the option. If the players hate it as much as this forum suggests, then those guilds will be lacking in people.
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The problem comes down to the lack of replayability of raids within a week span of time. The whole lockout system chain reaction caused this master loot / great vault conundrum. If people were given the chance to replay for depreciating returns rather than zero, after a lockout was completed, there’d be less anguish over the loot pools.
What if… they brought master looter back, but only for heroic/mythic guild-only raids, maybe just mythic?
If you don’t like your hc/mythic guild running master looter… just leave bro, the /gquit works as designed.
- I wouldn’t play with people i don’t trust.
- If you would, that’s your problem.
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That’s fine. When/if it does come back I would suggest joining a guild of like minded individuals who want to use PL. Based on the forums there will be plenty of them so won’t be an issue for you 
If you don’t like the loot system they have clearly kayed out then I will provide a step by step guide eon how to deal with it.
1, press enter
2, copy and paste the following
/gquit
3, press enter again
Why do people think there will be drama in good guilds when we already use rc loot counsel for everything we can anyway without and issues?
For me it’s a red flag if they don’t use it.
Ultimately people shouldn’t let themselves be taken advantage of and really people should play with people who they think would take advantage of them if they had the ability to.
I dont want to play with people who are onlu not “abusing” me because they are unable to. No thanks. I would rather go find some better humans to play with.
In before someone gives the obvious solution to my problem?
Why wouldn’t you just make your own and have all the players (according to forum claims the vast majority) flock to your group? Sounds ideal. Fast filling groups with so many applicants you can pick the best ones and get a strong raid? Sounds like an ideal situation to me!
Why not?
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The transcript from the interview. It’s my understanding that they want to find a middle ground between the two systems. Not a straight return of ML.
"Now that we’re talking about loot. Why do you not want to bring back master looter?
What if I told you… I kind of do want to bring back master loot, and the team does? It’s something we’ve been reflecting on a lot in the last year, year and a half, looking at places where we and the community have differed over the years and reevaluating some of our thinking. Loot is a tricky one. Going back to Legion, we had personal and group loot in parallel, and maintaining two versions of loot in terms of how the data is setup, the UI experience, the code… was a mess. That was something we wanted to get out of for a bunch of reasons, and at the time we were looking at group loot, saw a bunch of problems with this structure we’d built, and were like “lets tear it down, lets lay new foundations, lets build a new system that’s all personal” and over the last few years we’ve been iterating on it and refining it and adding rules and exceptions, but there’s a lot of problems with it. Clarity around what’s tradeable is pretty bad, the feeling of “hey an item just dropped and it’s technically an ilevel upgrade, but I’m not going to use it and I can’t give it to my friends” - that feels pretty bad. We certainly haven’t solved degenerate behavior from world first guilds, if anything it’s gotten worse with all the cross server stuff and buyers. So yeah, we’re taking at hard look at where we want to land going forward. The challenge is, well we spent a solid six years building new foundations, and so it’s not just something where you can flip a switch and say “alright, everything works the way it did,” but I think there’s a lot to be said for keeping personal loot in some spaces like outdoor world, trash in dungeons and raid, I don’t think anyone needs group loot trappings there. But the core experience of killing a raid boss, there’s four things on the corpse, figure out what you want to do with those four things - that’s something we’d like to get back to. I don’t have the ability to promise that all the work to make that happen can occur in just the next few months, but in terms of a long-term heading, that’s what we’re thinking."
"So it’s not that the team is necessarily ideologically opposed to this, it’s just that there is a lot of tech problems and the dissonance. I think it was Antorus whenever this happened, just caused problems?
Yeah, we had our tools, our code, every assumption we made in how we build loot tables from 2018 onwards has gone in one direction, and now we’d need to just turn back around. There’s a lot of questions to figure out also, we should also bear in mind that going back to group loot means you could have a bow drop with no Hunters in the raid, and sometimes that’s a thing that will happen and that feels bad, but that’s kind of ok - it has to be. The thing we can’t have happen is a world where loot is still smart and if you stack a group with like 6 Warriors, you’re only going to get Warrior loot and it’s completely tradeable with no restrictions? That just kind of breaks everything, so we need to just figure out a middle ground going forward, but… that’s something we want to do."
Sorry, you have to get abused first to know. Here in is the real problem is Blizzard willing to let players get abused when they have a system already in place that stops this abuse from happening? Again as I said before it isn’t in line with their new motto: The game being fully inclusive to all players.
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The problem is not the system, it is the community and the lack of action on the part of Blizzard to take decisive action against the toxic behavior and abuse of certain individuals on the system. Blizzard instead of actively regulating the community decided to change the system, that solved the ninja looting but not the toxic behavior that is still present in other aspects.
Blizzard needs to take an active role in regulating the community and in enforcing the code of conduct, if they need to expand and detail it better it should be done, and invest the time and personal in solving the problems. By removing the master loot, the only thing it caused was a disservice to the community in general, not only by removing a tool, but also by not solving a problem by attacking its root, human behavior.
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Hogwash.
This guy knew exactly what the rules were and agreed to join anyway. If he didnt like it he should have not joined the guild.
Except groups of organized players with a common goal that want to trade gear to each other. They can take a hike lol
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