Personal loot is the more selfish loot system.
Master loot allows players to sacrifice personal wants to help the group. Personal loot prevents that when it matters.
Random isn’t friendly. Random is usually cruel.
Personal loot promotes the “my loot” mentality which is very not friendly.
Yeah… after trying out classic and tbc … gdkp runs and trials is the worst thing i have ever seen and experienced. Thats seems to be the reality and I went and experienced it… so thats a no from me. Keep personal loot but with more leeway. 
Just because the person(s) in raid who are getting jerked around by master looter are fewer in number than those taking the items for themselves, doesn’t make it right.
For example: Many pugs in Draenor (as I’m sure you remember) had items on reserve. People who were still desperate for AOTC would unfortunately have to pass up on loot and join these groups in hope they could score their achievement in lieu of getting items (even though they also are spending their valuable time working toward a goal).
While I completely understand your very easy and obvious answer is to say “well then, don’t join”, but that wasn’t always the perfect choice for people. It wasn’t like an occasional group here or there. I remember opening up the search panel many times to full pages of groups with whatever the RL wanted on reserve. Just because someone isn’t proficient in raid leading, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve loot. They’re making time and effort as much as anyone else.
And at the time I even mythic raided. Didn’t need the loot, I just wanted to raid. Was completely disgusted by the behavior.
I just find that to be really lame.
We seem to have a different viewpoint on right and wrong. So beyond that there is honestly nothing else to discuss.
Won’t work, since if it’s personal loot like it works today, it would smart drop based on loot spec selected. High end raiders would then 10000000% engage in the most extreme degenerate class based splits ever before seen to maximize the funneling of gear to specific players.
The only way this could be prevent is if the smart checks were removed and random gear was distributed to random people without any consideration for raid composition or class/spec. If it just shot randomized gear to randomized players, like legacy loot in raids, then sure, that’s fine, as long as the previous four criteria I mentioned were met.
Me too, while it is useful for teams that use out correctly it was also frequently abused by other guilds. Trials not being eligible for any loot for weeks despite contributing to the kills is ridiculous imo (though that could be somewhat alleviated with currency to buy loot and a return of bonus rolls), and then there’s the raid leaders that straight up abused the system by giving everything to their buddy or significant other just because.
While there are certainly raid leaders who can and do use ML properly there are also plenty who abused it, and those who abused it ruined it for everyone else. Unless Blizzard plans to punish the people who abuse it then ML should stay dead.
no bring it back let it remind them of why they changed it.its going to be so toxic with master looter coming back…lol.
Personal loot was a blessing for pugs in LFG. I had way too many issues with troll raid leaders stealing loot or giving it to their buddies. I didn’t mind when they restricted ML to guild only groups. As long as ML doesn’t have an advantage on gear progression over personal loot, then IDC if ML comes back with limited use like before.
Unless it’s country music, country music will always be bad. Johnny Cash gets a pass though.
Master Looter should stay dead for everything Accept Guild activities. If a guild must pug people to fill spots, then it should be comprised of at least 80% of a guild for master looter to become an option.
I’m looking forward to having an ml option for our guild runs. Not being able to trade upgrades to guildies is annoying.
hows this for a solution?
people toggle whether they want ML or PL.
rng decides what goes where. lets say 15 people voted ML and 5 PL. Everyone has an equal chance to get loot, except the ML group has their loot go towards that ML pool, and PL gets their personally. So, say 4 items drop, and 3 were won luckily by PL group. Now 15 people will decide who gets their one.
Alternatively, the ML group can get all 4 and PL none, ML can decide to whoever it goes. Presumably they’ll pick within their own group.
Thoughts?
Well, like I said, you couldn’t use ML in pugs in Legion, it required 80% of the group to be from the same guild. Personally I always felt it should require 100% to be from the same guild, so hopefully they go with that.
For people to complain about ML like this AFTER THEIR CONCERN WAS ALREADY FIXED YEARS AGO is idiotic.
How about this instead: Don’t join a guild that uses ML if you don’t want to.
Doesn’t solve anything, takes us back to vanilla arguments etc. etc. etc.
You’re stressing out about nothing.
PL will still be a thing for LFR players.
ML should definitely be a choice though for guilds. Players who started playing post-community are kind of a weird demographic.
What vanilla arguments? You mean the urban legends people spread around, who don’t even raid? But are a bunch of busy-bodies who want to stick their noses into what other people are doing?
This is exactly how it worked in Legion.
But people still came to the forums complaining about master loot in pugs, because people who complain here are a bunch of liars.
Guilds with different systems was the norm back in the day, so it’s just a return to something already happened. You’re more than welcome to say you prefer that, but even Ion said it’s not gonna happen, so as much as we’d like (or not like) it’s not coming back. We can think of a new system, as he said his team is trying to think of one.
I like the stark contrast. Someone above posted a video example and the argument is “well time has passed, times are different” as excuse.
And Ion specifically cited ‘degenerate behavior’ as one of issues. After all, they did nix it.
Not an argument
Guilds already have different systems, now. We do loot differently than many other guilds since we do loot by consensus, as an example.
It’s happening now.
Ion is a known liar.
You’re just calling everything you don’t like a lie. 