All of the data they are looking at is skewed. Doing 8-9k dps in 20+ keys would result in not being timed. To do 8-9kdps in a dungeon you’d almost to not pop your 2 minute cooldowns at least 3-4 times throughout the dungeon.
Done talking to folks that know nothing about the game
That’s not accurate. There are many players out there with high item level, but low skill, applying to groups. One poorly played member of a group just means the others have to pick up the slack. It happens all the time.
Your comment seems a bit self serving, like you’re trying to justify that running high keys requires massive amounts of skill, rather than just getting carried. I don’t know you. Maybe you’re an amazingly skilled Hunter. But it’s just as likely that you’re terrible and tricked others into carrying you.
Either way, you seem to rely on saying all data that doesn’t support your argument is flawed, while any data you provide is perfect.
@Bepples. First of all, the reason that Details/Skada numbers are different from Warcraft log numbers is varied. From my understanding, Details doesn’t adjust their dps numbers for overkill while Warcraft logs does whihc leads to differences in total damage done. Additionally, Details differs significantly from Warcraft logs in how it calculates combat time which leads to inflated DPS numbers But these differences, as you have pointed out, are all relative so it doesn’t matter if we consistently use one or the other. The ratio of dps done in the instance across all clases/specs should be the same no matter which reporting mechanism you use. That being said, the reason I ask for logs versus observations about Details is transparancy. Short of posted screen shots of Details reports, there is nothing preventing someone “fudging” numbers to make an argument more appealing. It is the same reason i detest anecdotal “evidence” that suggests BM hunters are good because “there was this one where a hunter did amazing damage” or bad because “there was this one run where the hunter pulled everything and wiped us”
@Legolasð Data is only skewed when information is omitted, either intentionally or accidentally, leading to innacurate or misleading conclusions. The logs referenced by me were taken directly from the website Warcraftlogs and can easily be referenced. So unless the posters of the data painstakingly altered the data in the text file before uploading, it has not been skewed in any way. You may not like the conclusions drawn from the data, and they may make you look less impressive than you actually are, but they are valid. As for As for not being able to time a 20 key at 9K dps, that entirely depends on the damage provided by the other 4 people. It is afterall a 5 man experience. And last but not least, if you are done talking thats perfectly within your right and I support you, but communication is the only way issues get resolved even with us poor folk who know 'nothing" about the game.
Not exactly.
Logs count the whole dungeon time versus damage. So a stealth skip equals 0 dps for the duration. The 5-15 seconds at the start grouping the first pack equals 0 dps. The 0-5 seconds between pulls equals 0 dps.
Details only records combat time. Time your character is in combat.
Logs show when you aren’t in combat, it knows you aren’t in combat. But it records the whole dungeon time against you. I think this serves to prevent sitting and waiting for CDs in order to boost your log dps at the expense of your key time. Although there are times you still might need to wait on CDs to survive.
The point is details overall isn’t “inflated”, it just isn’t telling you the same thing as a log overall. It’s up to the speakers in discourse to determine what precisely they are referring to when they make claims or dispute claims.
Part of the issue currently is the disparity from player to player in tier pieces. My hunter has one piece that is in bags, on April 12th will have 2pc for sure, April 26th for 4pc.
What I seriously doubt is that 2pc/4pc is going to put me in the 40K dps ballpark on AoE that I am currently seeing my friends pull on other specs in AoE in M+15 or higher.
A large part of that discrepancy is definitely the fact that our NF covenant leggo doesn’t work past 4 mobs in AoE (NF is top covenant for BM, and used by majority).
Believe this can also lead to great logs if the group is pulling small, thus allowing a BM hunter to leverage every Wild Spirits window to the max at the expense of the other 2 DPS in the group (not pulling more than 4)
Further BM just doesn’t have much AoE baseline to the spec, whereas other specs have solid or great AoE baseline, which means even if both specs borrowed power leggo are equal in power, they are unequal in results because the baseline AoE is different
My take, BM won’t see any more tweaking until Blizzard believes everyone has 4pc, so after April 26 reset.
I don’t understand why you are going off Warcraft logs. If we do a tank and spank patchwork boss in a raid, details and logs will be about the same. Because they are active while in combat. Using logs in a m+ environment is not accurate at all. Doesn’t account for long run backs or long movement events. Claiming details is inflated vs logs is disingenuous to say the least and if you understand why they are different and still think logs are more relevant to mythic plus well you are just wrong. All sims are in combat.
@Wizbank So I have already discussed why I ask/look at logs.
Well I’m talking about these other people
harping logs are king, details is inflated which couldn’t be further from the truth.
But to be on topic my main is BM and 12-16k is normal with details. No tier.
@Wizbank So this is why i say show me logs. it’s a nice way of saying show me proof. You see, there are quite of few people doing 15-20 keys as BM hunter with a performance average in the 90+ range that have stated they do, according to discord, between 10-12K dps routinely, This is roughly been my experience as well, but I dont claim to be in their league at all. Yet here you are, with no tier, claiming you do 12-16K as normal dps. See my point. Again you cannot prove or disprove that statement short of random screenshots and who has time for that. Now if you had something more concrete to offer, something that could be examined independently like perhaps a log, then we could marvel at your awesomeness. As for DPS being inflated with Details, as I said earlier, it doesn’t remove overkill damage in its report whereas logs do.
Yes I will take random screen shots just for you. Just to prove my point and if the log shows 10k and details shows 15k are you really gonna claim that’s due to overkill damage…. I don’t log but someone logged a dos I did apparently.
Details for this was around 14k from what I remember not like there isn’t 5 mins of running around in dos or anything….
@Malcvi I am not sure that is how WCL produces its DPS numbers (looking at the logs, it is doubtful that is the case tbh) . I pm’ed Kihra on discord to ask specifically though and will post the response. As for the reason I say that Details inflates DPS compared to WCL is primarily overkill. Details includes overkill while WCL automatically removes it.
@dochunter I included the overkill on that log and it changes by 30dps so claiming it’s due to overkill the differences between the 2 looks full of holes at this time.
The activity times in all the logs should be a dead giveaway to how it’s calculated. Damage done divided by completion time
@wizbank. Here is your other log available, a 15 Streets log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Zmft24dBMYJPFkHV#fight=18&type=summary
So you see why I question blanket statements like “I normally do 12-16K”
Yea 21 deaths and a bunch of running back the details still showed 11k for that one. You are just gonna plain ignore the fact that wcl calculates off time in dungeon… ok well you just keep looking at those logs that literally calculates based off time in dungeon not off of combat time.
normally doesn’t entail pugs with people that don’t know their shapes. If you are still gonna ignore the fact that details is accurate based off combat time and hold onto WCL dream.
You have convinced me Wizbank. Guys Bm hunters are now fantastic in M+, routinely doing 12-16K dps which is at least equal to, and in some cases above even MM/SV hunters, fury warriors, and all those other God classes. We are certain to be the new meta.
Here’s some screen shots for you since it’s so hard to believe.
Let’s see your amazing logs…. Yea I’ll wait.
Edit. Nvm I found you even when we were op at the end of bfa you were a green parser idk why it’s always the bads that cry.
I do believe specs are balanced around 20s.
But if bm hunters want to go further it’s very difficult when other classes can do 20k overall