Man'ari Questline *Spoilers*

Archimonde who was his apprentice backstabbed him to gain a position of leadership among the Eredar then secretly used the Fel Magic he learned from Thal’kiel to get in contact with Sargeras allowing him to find the Planet in the first place.

Source. Thalkiel never says that. The order hall book doesn’t say anything about that. Source. Otherwise you’re just shooting out more headcanon and expecting that others will not recognize it.

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That’s what actually happens though. According to Chronicles and the lore on Demonlogy warlock artificat

“Several years before the coming of Sargeras to Argus, Thal’kiel was a sorcerer of unmatched talent who led an order of eredar magi called the Wakeners, specialists in the arts of conjuration and binding. The magi summoned arcane constructs to help build the architecture of Argus’ capital, while Thal’kiel himself devised machines to focus the planet’s latent arcane energies. For his work, the sorcerer was greatly admired. There were rumors that Thal’kiel’s young apprentice, Archimonde, coveted his master’s power and influence, but Thal’kiel himself dismissed these claims, for Archimonde had showed him nothing but devotion, having even gone to great lengths to create a custom-made crown for the eredar leader, taking the measurements for his head himself. At the time, Thal’kiel and Archimonde were among the most prominent proponents of phrenology — the study of skull shape as a means to determine intellectual aptitude — and Thal’kiel, in particular, was noted for having the archetypal sorcerer’s skull, for which he was widely admired”
this is from the wowpedia page

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That was a real movement by the way in the 30s and 40s especially. So they were questionable even before corruption.

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While phrenology irl is quackery and doesn’t apply to us, I think WoW lore implies that it’s actually a credible science when applied to Draenei.

I’m pretty sure the lore is silent on that. So no, I think Archimode and Takiel are both idiots for thinking it was accurate to use phernology to determine magical/intellectual aptitude.

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Both were power hungry individuals, I’m sure that played a lot into them being into phrenology so much

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You may be right. I don’t care if it’s viable in fiction, definitely isn’t irl. Thought it might be a way to make Draenei seem more alien.

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I’d like to think it was a way to make Takiel/Archimonde even more evil/foolish. Phernology being a debunked science and a racist one at that.

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I wonder what the aim of phrenology would be with the eredar. Were there other sub races of eredar with slightly different skull shapes? Or was it a male superiority thing since the males and females have quite different skull shapes because of the ridges and horns?

Likely just a way for powerful eredar to descriminate against some lower on the social totem pole. Given that the only mention of it is with archimonde and thal its likely it wasen’t even a mainstream thing was likely frowned upon

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We do know that some Man’ari became Wrathguards. Those look radically different from the rest.

Maybe there were subspecies but they got wiped out? Maybe Velen only liked male Draenei with squid faces and female draenei that had tendrils?

Or maybe it was just to drive home the fact that, yes, Archimonde was a vain idiot who, despite all the advancements of Argus, believed in something we discredited on Earth a long long time ago.

I feel it worth pointing out Wrathguards as they are radically different- claws on their feet instead of hooves, no tendrils or tentacles, much different head shape, etc.

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I am actually surprised they didn’t have Krokul as AR, and Lightforged as customization option, kinda like Night warrior thing with nelves.

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It was probably connected to seeking more expedient ways of identifying arcane potential.

In-game the Wakeners’ practices were made out to be particularly oriented toward weeding out the unworthy.

if they could convincingly give a good reason WHY the Man’ari were being accepted back in i’d be for it. this ain’t it though, but whatever. at least they look cool i guess.

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We have no evidence that the Man’ari are being accepted into Draenei society. A small group of them have been taken off of the “kill-on-sight” list. That’s it.

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Mind you, a better story would’ve even been to have had Man’ari defectors who had their true intents, affiliations, doubts and such hidden from Kil’Jaeden by a magical artifact.

You could’ve had a questline where the Army of Light received intel from a mysterious ally – Then discover where it came from and reflect they’d been regretting & rebelling their decision to side with Sargeras since the earliest days, once almost being wiped out when some of their ranks were discovered yet managed to endure.

You’d at least have some better justification to the playable Man’ari than … well,

Just to have Man’ari shrug and say:

“Yeah, I helped hunt your people across the stars whilst on a genocide frenzy, committing atrocities that’d make you weep – Such as the slaughter of Shattrath, one of our finer works :smiling_face_with_tear: … Aaaanyways, lets party together! - Yeah?”

— and more or less have that be accepted is a tad … Uuuh, odd isn’t the word I’d like to use but yeah. :sweat_smile: lol

I was going to link an article talking about the ww2 defense of just following orders, but apparently you can’t use the slang name of the ruling German party at the time…

[space where link to study testing obedience of subjects even when engaged in actions that they believe are immoral… used to be…]

TLDR, people are capable of being pressured into committing acts they believe are wrong.