I mean there will be that. The Horde may have some cool edgy looking stuff, but with Eradar, and Man’ari looks on Alliance side, the Alliance effectively got a huge win in that department.
Ultimately the Alliance gets the Man’ari because they are Eradar, Draenei are Eradar, and really the only race that WILL understand them is their fellow Eradar.
Not everyone, I love the addition of the Manari. I think they add a much needed edge to the Alliance , and it was bought with just a few shades of skin color being unlocked.
This is Cursewords. My Manari is actually named “Gusbus”, but he still has the Mechagnome name in this armory…
I wanted him to be named “Gus” because of Argus, and a DK tank is like a bus. So, Gusbus.
I never had a Draenei character before. And I am loving it. Real Hellboy vibes.
Lothraxion in Legion gave me major Hellboy vibes (he even has the sheared horns).
Didn’t the Worgen and Void Elves give them some edge? Even the Army of the Light have some edge for those who see them as Light fanatics.
It only counts as edge when it’s intergalactic omnicidal maniacs. Otherwise it’s just sparkling pointyness.
Literally what Terenas wanted! He wanted to rehabilitate the orcs so they would inevitably turn into part of the Alliance!
Considering what Blackmoore and others did, I think it’s best the Orcs left.
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Being broken out of felness=good but being forced into… humaness is not. Especially considering the kingdom fell not long after.
Terenas was well meaning but he still took payment from the slave camps, and those slave camps broke families apart intentionally with the intent to destroy culture and orcish spirit. Took children from their parents, husbands from their wives.
Citation: Orc Heritage.
… Terenas never wanted them as part of the Alliance. He wanted and believed they’d lose their urge to conquer and kill, but he never wanted them as part of the Alliance.
It’s Zerde. I have been off and on these forums since MoP and while I don’t remember him there, some of my earliest memories on the forums are of him.
Always been an Alliance White Knight to the point sometimes I think it’s satire. But… idek. I leave, I come back, I leave a coupla years, he’s still here. The rest of the cast changes but not Zerde.
What about Death Knights and Demon Hunters?
So, some points to emphasize in all this.
A lot of people really focusing on the “Forgiven” angle, but at no point is forgiveness given, asked for, expected or offered. In fact it is rather explicitly the opposite, the insistence by the Man’ari themselves that they can’t be forgiven, and the best they can hope for is to try an hit a point they MIGHT be able to look themselves in the mirror again.
Emphasis on might.
The other thing is the mental influences angle, the Quest brings up Kil’Jaeden and his weird lie detector which is… odd, because we already knew and have known that the Eredar have been mentally influenced by Sargeras, that’s been lore for ages.
https :// wowpedia. fandom .com/ wiki/ Sargeras # The_Burning_Crusade
Though Velen had doubts, Kil’jaeden and Archimonde readily agreed. Guided by a vision from the naaru and the ata’mal crystal Velen and his followers fled, becoming the draenei. The remainder of the eredar people were transformed into hideous demons, Sargeras’ fel whisperings surging through the minds of Argus’ every inhabitant and drowning out their ability to reason.
Sargeras quite literally made sure they were not capable of thinking reasonably and realizing the full extent of their horrifying actions. That is, of course, no excuse, but I do see a lot of people on RP servers forgetting that key component, because it is the same justification that Death Knights heavily lean on, that they were not in their right mind, they were not in control of themselves, and similarly, most Death Knights also acknowledge that they are still monsters even in spite of that.
In a world of literal magic compulsion, it becomes a bit like if it were possible to say program someone to be a serial killer and they acted as an effective bio-robot doing as commanded to do so.
Even in a court of law today, that would be a major factor if one can be considered guilty. Granted that isn’t really a thing IRL, mind control that is in literal terms I don’t think is yet real.
If say some computer chip thing could be put into the brain that could allow another to remote control another person, influence their thoughts or even compel them to do things and put ideas and actions into them, then certainly we could REALLY hold the person whose physical body did anything as totally responsible.
Heck, Orcs in lore had far greater direct knowledge as to what they were signing up to and were not as directly under the magical influence of a literal equivalent of a God as the Eradar were, and have gone in for Demonblood drinking twice and the Horde collectively both has done genocides without direct magical mental control a few times now; and is still nominally hostile to people they’ve warred with purely because they were serving Space Satan, even without Demonblood and mental compulsion and we grant Orcs and the Horde a pass.
No, they didn’t.
Kil’jaeden the Deceiver appeared as dead orcs before shamans.
Why the heck would you tell such a bold faced lie?
To defend Manari? The universe’s baby/planet/wife killers???
Tricked is a bit different than mind controlled in a direct magical sense of being inside ones thoughts and internal thinking.
I mean people have been tricked but rarely has someone been able to put thoughts in such a way to ones head.
The Manari weren’t mind controlled.
What’s his face specifically states they were not.
He had to play along for fear of being killed.
Those who did not play along were killed.
Also Mannoroth’s demon blood was a magical rage manipulation enchantment that continues to linger through the orcs and even their children. That was part of the temptation of why Grom double dipped back into it in Ashenvale.
And the forsaken as a whole are already mentally damaged as a result of being undead, and now we can thank SL for adding soul splitting to that to make Sylvanas even more defective.
It sounds bizarre to me that someone could excuse the Man’ari for being fel-infused who then go on to engage in universal omnicide and only show repentance because they lost but still hold the horde as morally worse when they were either compromised from the start, or were more tricked into it than before, and still had a lower body count in the end.
https :// wowpedia. fandom .com/ wiki/ Sargeras # The_Burning_Crusade
Though Velen had doubts, Kil’jaeden and Archimonde readily agreed. Guided by a vision from the naaru and the ata’mal crystal Velen and his followers fled, becoming the draenei. The remainder of the eredar people were transformed into hideous demons, Sargeras’ fel whisperings surging through the minds of Argus’ every inhabitant and drowning out their ability to reason.
I mean the Lore does also state that in total the Eradar were subject to some level of mind control. Again, the Orcs get a pass, heck they get a pass after allegedly freeing themselves I guess too.
I mean we are trying to impart culpability in a fantasy world where literal mind altering magic that can completely transform ones thoughts exists.
I feel like the fact that our one “repetentant” Eredar says that many had doubts, it’s just they had to banish them less they be slain or worse, tells us they did have far more free will than they would like to admit.
They are able to doubt, and smart enough to know that doubt leads to them dying. While they might want to say that they were completely under the influence they have the clarity of thought to mask any doubt they have.
This is not true. Thal’kiel was the first eredar to master demonology long before sargeras found Argus. After the triumvirate discovered what we was doing, they deliberated and Archimonde carried out his execution and turned him into what he is as a warning to any other eredar who would dabble in such powers in the future. It’s one of the rare good examples of irony in WoW considering. It was only later that he was also used as a weapon against his will by Legion lords.