Yea? That’s why we are here. To play a game made by the original developers of WoW. Like I said. Wrath is not modern WoW and also not Vanilla. Wrath is Wrath.
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Lol makes me think of Mr. Incredible with “math is math!”
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Wrath classic*
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Which would be contrary to the design of Classic thus far, and even in every other regard of Wrath Classic in specific. Not including RDF along with the rest of the systems that are being shipped regardless of when they were introduced in the expansion is a change so far as Classic design is concerned.
So you’re asking for a change under the pretense of the patch that it dropped? The system you want came out alongside ICC and wasn’t around in terms of system length for 59% of the expansion. Who’s asking for changes now?
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You are. I can’t be any clearer on this point.
And many others systems came out at many other points. Classic has not done intentional progressive system releases. They pick a point that is the best holistic representation of the spirit of the expansion and release all those systems at the start, and then do progressive content release. RDF is part of that best holistic representation and therefor should be released right out the gate alongside anywhere BG queues, the final iteration of talents, Cold Weather flying at 77, etc.
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You can keep repeating it but it being released alongside ICC isn’t a change. It’s when it came out originally.
They use the later patches because they are the most bug free, catalogued and balanced and for the obvious reason that they don’t want to have to constantly overhaul the game simply for dev time every patch - not because they want to preserve “the holistic representation of the spirit of the expansion”. I dislike the BG changes and any changes for that matter, but this argument of trying to twist the logic of adding RDF on launch as though simply because they use 3.3.5 simply because it is a system is ridiculous.
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I don’t wanna make friends, I want to do dungeons in a timely manner in a video game lmao.
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No, it’s logically consistent with the design philosophy of Classic thus far. Quite the opposite of ridiculous. You insisting it is somehow irrelevant is what is ridiculous.
Just because they did one thing doesn’t mean they should do another. The design philosophy of classic WoW is what is relevant, not the design philosophy of adding QOL to appease retail players.
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The design philosophy of Classic WoW is as I’ve outlined and dictates that RDF be included at the beginning of Wrath Classic.
Adding Wrath systems to Wrath Classic would be to appease Wrath players, not retail players. If the two intersect at any point that is nothing more than trivia.
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Not the current reiteration of classic. The original trilogy recreating the most successful MMO ever made.
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RDF was in the original trilogy during the literal peak popularity of the most successful MMO ever made.
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Fixed that for you
It was also responsible for causing a bleed of the long term players that caused the player base to collapse going into cataclysm despite many new people joining. It was the beginning of the end for classic and a dramatic shift away from its original design philosophy.
Saying “The playerbase didn’t dramatically decrease and increased less than at any stage of TBC or classic” doesn’t speak well for RDF.
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It wasn’t.
Also no. It was literally something the devs had wanted in the game since before Vanilla released. Wrath basically represents the closest the devs ever got to actually nailing the design philosophy they were following when creating Vanilla, but which they failed to achieve with Vanilla and TBC.
Right, it just caused a period of stagnation in sub counts followed by a calamitous collapse for the following expansion that launched with it (and every expansion afterwards).
The original concept they had for it was entirely different. I agree that wrath represented most of what they were aiming for in terms of gameplay actually having decent mechanics but it’s also well known that wrath was a rushjob and represented the time where they fell behind in developing content and made many poor choices and cut a ton of content.
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RDF isn’t what caused the stagnation. The game was never going to grow infinitely because that’s not how reality works. The game suffered from attrition and achieving (and frankly blowing past) market saturation, among other things. Pinning the decline of the game on RDF is naive at best and dishonest at worst.
It really wasn’t.
"“If you truly want to get back to the genesis of Dungeon Finder, it probably goes all the way back to Warcraft 3. When we moved from Starcraft to Warcraft 3, one of the big innovations that we did in Warcraft 3 was add automated matchmaking,” says Pardo. “I was certainly always passionate about the idea of could we just take the Warcraft 3 methodology? Can we get it down to a single button; you press a button and you’re instantly magically in a group that’s well-formed.”"
If you actually listened to the design philosophy that led the devs of the original game they were about as far as you could get from what the “nochange” crowd would want. But when your starting point is unrepentant garbage like EQ, an amazing design philosophy can only take you so far. In the DVD that came with the original CE I remember them specifically stating that their goal with leveling was that you were having so much fun, and leveling took such a reasonable amount of time, that when you dinged it was a surprise. You had no idea how close you were but suddenly the lights and sound went off and it was like oh damn I leveled! Obviously Vanilla failed spectacularly in this regard, even when it was new.
The game shifted from a design philosophy of social interactions to accessibility and they’ve openly acknowledged this. Cataclysm was a doubling down on the design philosophy they embraced with late WOTLK which was practically a different game to previous patches. Trying to act like it was market saturation is extremely disingenuous. They made cataclysm for a new audience that did come, at the expense of endgame content for the existing one and caused the playerbase to collapse in a severe miscalculation.
Note how this is nothing like the system you are asking for. I have played warcraft 3 and am well aware as to how its lobbies work also and it is of course very different to LFD as it was added. They mentioned a great many things they considered and didn’t add for a multitude of reasons in these discussions which would take far too long to discuss point by point, but even your excerpt describes a very different system to the one they later added when most of these devs were leaving for other titles or had already left.
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I mean they didn’t, no. The name of the game when it came to WoW was always accessibility. That was literally the north star of their design philosophy. The entire goal of World of Warcraft in a general sense was to bring MMOs to a broader audience.
So you think the game could have grown forever? If you don’t answer this with a simple yes or no before waiting for my response I will take it as the admission of you having no intention of engaging in good faith that it would be.
Sounds precisely like RDF. A single button press to find yourself “magically” in a well-formed group. You would be hard-pressed to better summarize the system.