Except none of that is true. I have literally shown you proof that “Grand Alliance” is a term used even to refer to the organization in Warcraft 2-3
More importantly, the Chronicles book never mentions anything about reforming to be a new organization and everything showing they continued as the same organization with different members. Simply losing nations like Gilneas/Stormgarde did not mean the Alliance dissolved. Why would that apply to Lordaeron’s fall? Especially when say Jaina considers herself leader of the tattered remains of the Alliance and Onyxia wants to destroy the remain Alliance power(even the Black Dragon does not consider it a separate organization)
Each nation was ALWAYS independent. Hence why Genn was able to keep his troops back while the Horde was attacking Southern Lordaeron.
They’re similiar. Considering NATO was born from those intial alliances in WW 2. But they aren’t exactly the same as both groups formed for two entirely different reasons.
I would say the Alliance is closer to the EU more so then NATO. And look, one of its founding members are gone, it doesn’t mean the organization ever dissolved.
At best, this doesn’t say anything about whether they can leave. Though it does set up the later line that they didn’t want to be building a base, like the quest giver told you.
Then you they react as stated above when you tell them they can leave. Again, that dialog is based on not being able to leave before. It is not dialog of someone who was able to leave all along.
The complaints of “I haven’t had a beer break in hours!” don’t really make sense if they’re actually enslaved. It isn’t the kind of response you’d get. Or something like, “You’re right. I didn’t sign up to build a war base.”
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Complaints about having to work are entirely consistent with being forced to stay there.
The part were they find out that, now that the player is there, they can leave is entirely consistent with being forced to stay.
The quest is about them having to work on a base they didn’t want to build. The quest giver states it and the NPCs react accordingly. What did you think it was about. The player going up and reminding them they could leave all along?
Just because another quest didn’t use an ironic title doesn’t say anything about whether they quest did.
I think it was intended to show what the commander was capable of while under sha influence. But it did happen.
But for pushing the “Alliance Good, Horde bad” meme, that isn’t so useful because it undermines being able to ignore the Horde being far more corrupted and enslaved. Something that is vary important to the meme.
Couldn’t parse the first sentence. The second was a vague trollish distraction. (brininging up a deferent topic with provocative condemnations is definitely trollish in effect)
I dunno if I’d call that the lawful good overdrive after the intros. I’ll note that the horde intro is them stumbling onto an alliance base and getting shot down vs the Alliance doing an air raid on a horde base with Sky Admiral War Criminal, who goes on to slaughter surrendering orcs, in the one questing bit that somewhat disturbed me prior to WoT.
I think what he meant was that the question of what to do with the prisoners of the defeated Horde in the aftermath of the Second War, was a no-win scenario. Genocide was bad, enslavement was bad, etc… The Internment Camps were thought up with good intentions, but swiftly declined into atrocities, and no one in the Alliance in a position of authority did anything to change that, even after being made aware of it. Even Antonidas whom wanted to help the Orcs was unable to do so without securing the necessary funding.
Giving a minor complaint about say a lack of beer breaks upon leaving is not consistent with being enslaved or held captive.
Given nobody tries to stop them that we see, that a number of them just give minor complaints, the fact they’re labeled as volunteers, yeah. The Pandaren can be pushovers and didn’t leave when they could have. But they do so upon being urged.
Given the quests are meant to be mirrored sides, I think it speaks to it to some degree.
While I’m fine with a scenario where the Alliance are the villains, my concern is if Blizzard goes this route, they’ll get bogged down in using it for preachy social commentary about real-life things (either patriotism and racism if they lean into the “racial supremacy” angle, or religion if they lean into the “Light fanaticism” angle. Plus, I think trying to clog “Alliance supremacy” and “Light fanaticism” in the same expansion would cheapen both story arcs by giving them less exploration).
Personally, I’d love for them to get a group of Magi and used combined magic to do what Jaina was going to do ages back → Combine an emormous mass of water elementals, into a Tsunami —
And flood Orgrimmar.
At the same time having Night Elves use a Bronze-Dragon Artifact to warp the zone Azshara to how it looked pre-Cataclysm, and bomb the back entrance of Orgrimmar, trapping any who try to escape the floods of the Tsunami; whilst protecting their own forces too.
Use this as an opportunity to upgrade Orgrimmar.
Have some Bleeding Hollow commit a ritual to sprout Draenor flora all around, to soak up much of the flooding – yet reflect it was partially sabotaged or somewhat overtaken, having the Botani that came through with the Alternate Mag’har spread their works throughout some of it.
This will provide:
Better eye candy for Durotar + Orgrimmar.
Give some home-sweet-homage to the Orcs & their city.
Give quest potential, especially towards the Barrens should they continue their advance.
Spread additional threats throughout Azeroth & potentially create more dungeon opportunities in Kalimdor.
Making the Alliance into the villains of an expansion would be tricky, because there are far too many (and too powerful) characters whom would stop it out of the gate. Turalyon, Alleria, Jaina, Tyrande, Malfurion, Velen, etc… All people whom have been preserving and pushing for peaceful co-existence, and essentially the entire roster of the Alliance’s power houses. These are the characters who have to be sidelined for most faction conflict expansions otherwise…
Gestures at Jaina flooding Orgrimmar with a Water Elemental Tsunami.
One could argue all that needs to be done is to make them into Warmongers, but the game is littered with the corpses of ruined characters in the pursuit of narratives that a small minority of players liked to begin with. No one liked Jaina’s constant flip-flopping between peace and war, just as no one liked rehashing MoP but worse with BFA.
To put it another way, if literal genocide wasn’t enough to make Turalyon go full deus vult on the Horde back in BFA, then nothing will. If watching the Horde commit another genocide wasn’t enough to change Velen’s mind, nothing will. If the genocide of Malfurion’s people and destruction of a World Tree was not enough to turn Orgrimmar into his own Emerald Nightmare, nothing will be.
We’re past the point these characters would’ve gone warmonger. Starting another faction conflict now, would be as tone deaf as it was to start one after Legion.
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Foolish thought.”