one is a different role. 
I know one is a tank so make one of the dps ones range .
If hunters donât need 3 range range specs then why do others need 3 melee type specs or 3 range type specs.
Prot warrior is still melee itâs just not dps .
The whole argument that the only class to have a spec changed from range to melee because it doesnât need 3 range specs is utter b.s. because we already had more melee specs then range and what was the last range spec to be added that wasnât a healer .
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no tank has ever been ranged, that was a bad example.
mage, lock, priest, etc never had a melee option in combat before (besides auto attack). irrelevant.
Hunterâs thematically work great for a melee, spear-wielder.
We could use a new class that isnât melee⌠dk, monk, dh,âŚ
Like I said make one of the dps spec range say fury or make unholy dk range .
The point is there was no need to make 1 of a limited amount of range specs into a melee when there are already more melee then ranged . Especially since they have not added a range dps spec since what vanilla
I donât know if anyone has pointed it out yet, but survival was a melee spec on vanillaâs alpha.
Itâs always been a weird spec - i loved it in cata pvp, but i almost never felt a strong immersion with it. Now itâs getting there
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I like it the way it is, gives the class something different. How about we look at the rogue and mage for example. The rogue could have a ranged spec and the mage⌠could have a TANK option. Just saying.
Oh boy, another Aviela thread.
Never happening. It has its own identity separate from the other two specs now and going back on the design they came up for it with Legion would be a massive pain. Either play one of the other specs or go to Classic.
survival is one of the most unique specs in the game, it truly is a melee/ranged hybrid. if you ever do pvp you play survival as if itâs a ranged spec most of the time anyway
They absolutely should return ranged SV, but thereâs no way they will delete melee SV to make it happen.
They should either make a fourth spec (least likely), or truly add SV onto either MM tree (like they promised), or into the BM tree. I mean, would it be so bad to have a level 15 talent called Survivalist that replaces Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire, or Kill Command with Explosive Shot and Black Arrow?
PvPers and MM hunters always complain that BM does no damage outside of its pet. What better way to divert some damage away from the pet and onto the player than by making these abilities available on the tree?
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Or why not just unprune the ranged SV primary abilities so each spec has access to them, but have a talent on MM and BM trees that buff them to the point that you could use them in place of your standard abilities, and causes your primary attacks (Kill Command and AiS) to be Uncastville? I donât understand why there arenât better options for the players that miss RSV.
No. Iâll be blunt. The 1% niche population that Melee has. Is in no way, shape or form more important than the overwhelming percentage and support that Ranged had. And this is a big part of the issue. You melee fanatics act like you guys are Ions gift to Azeroth. Very, very few people like Survival in this current iteration. And it shows. But rather than side with the masses who just want Ranged to come back, while keeping the niche spec 1% of 1% of 1% may like. You guys would rather fight us till the second coming of Deathwing.
âŚCherry picking much? PvP is stupid. Arena is stupid. The overwhelming majority of players who do care give a rats booty about serious pvp, much less arena. So sure, â85%â with a decent rating may be a good chunk in arena. But, how does that hold up to rogues, or warlocks, or mages. Or demon hunters, or, or, or. Exactly. Survival is a niche spec that can do okay in arena and can even do well in PvE. But because itâs such a niche spec that is anti hunter in every way, if not downright unfun to the majority, and lacking any type of utility. It is niche. You can spit pointless PvP facts out all you want, But the majority of a minority is still a minority no way you spin it. Sorry, not sorry.
Besides, Ranged Survival was the PvP spec as well. YouâŚknow this, right? So it isnât surprising at all that killing the PvP spec and leaving 2 specs that are genuinely weak in PvP, will by default make MSV the go to for the higher rated stuff.
By god, someone else gets it! Huzzah! I want to put emphasis on what I bolded though. This is the crux of the issue. Survival WAS NOT MADE FOR HUNTERS. ION SAID THIS. So this nonstop fight between the majority who like RSV and the minority who like the nichness of MSV will never stop. MSV wasnât made for hunters. In doing so, this alienated its core. Doubly so when the spec involved was the most popular hunter spec and consistently was one of the most popular specs in the entire game.
Clueless. Completely clueless.
From inception. Survival was NEVER melee(even in yee early days with Lacerate, it was still designed around ranged, while not being useless in melee). Hunters as a whole were designed around ranged combat. But due to the deadzone each spec could utilize Raptor Strike and Wing Clip, along with tools like traps, concussive shot, etc⌠to stay at ranged. Survival was just that, survival. It was designed around improving the tools it had, to ensure it stayed at ranged. Talents like Entrapment and Improved Wing Clip further emphasized this. Could it do some damage in melee? Sure. It had Savage Strikes which increased the critical chance of Raptor Strike and Mongoose bite. As well as Counterattack which was usable after Parrying, though this also rooted the target. Giving the player a chance to get back to ranged.
Again. Survival was Survival. All hunters were designed around ranged damage to be optimal. But where BM put the emphasis on your pet and MM put the emphasis on damage, SV went the defensive route. It provided all the tools necessary to stay at ranged, or quickly get back to ranged, while also making melee situations not instantly a GG for the hunter due to the Deadzone. But hell, even BM and MM could use Raptor Strike and Wing Clip. Doesnât make them melee specs. /shrug.
Also, to counter your âwas garbageâ comment. Survival was actually the best DPS for Hunters once Naxx rolled around due to the extra agility from Lightning Reflexes.
SoâŚYou didnât play hunter. Melee wasnât designed for Hunters. Not attacking, just using this as further emphasis that MSV was not targeted at people who already played hunters.
BC for me. The changes to Survival and Demonology that came after they killed both specs to prep for Legion, have been among the worst changes in this games history in my opinion.
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How about we donât thanks. The spec is fine, they just need to figure out how to tune it properly. I have mained it since day one of legion. I have been a hunter since cata, everything before that was a prot paladin. So you canât give me the you just donât know old SV talk. I love it personally. So for every one player like you who cryâs about it. You have another enjoying it like crazy.
Itâs super fun in pvp. Has a ton of utility. We just donât hit hard enough in raid/dungeons. Even that being said, I managed to get 2.2k io with the spec just pugging. So hopefully they just tune us a little better. We still have over a month before SL drops. I am sure they are testing numbers.
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People have attempted it before yes. Still, no.
Prior to Legion, SV have never been a âmelee-specâ. Prior to Cata, there wasnât even a spec called Survival. Only a talent category.
And talent categories were never designed to completely alter our gameplay in the past. Nothing you could pick from any category as a hunter back then resulted in a deviation from the default class mechanics, those primarily focused on ranged combat(meaning you wanted to use ranged attacks as much as possible).
Saying that picking talents from SV back then made you a âmelee-hunterâ is like saying that talents mostly from BM allowed us to become literal beasts(as in the hunter no longer mattered, and we should now only fight by using Eyes of the Beast, druid-style). After all, BM talents mostly strengthened our pets right?
We are all different and we connect with different elements in the game.
Classic does not provide what people refer to when saying that they want âranged SVâ back. Not even close.
While there will always be those who likes something, they essentially did say that âthe SV rework wasnât necessarily meant for then-current hunters but for other playersâ.
That right there is IMO a horrible way to go about making changes to classes.
Itâs like if I was to say that I donât like the current Warrior specs we have. I want Warriors to have a healing spec so therefor, they should remove either Arms or Fury and add that in instead. Itâs enough if they have 1 tank spec and 1 dps spec anywayâŚ
Note: I will NEVER actually say that.
Having said that, we are already past the changes they made to hunters so, rather than doing the same thing all over again, just reversed, bring back what was deleted as itâs own thing.
Yep.
Back then, the class wasnât designed to have multiple defined/dedicated playstyle that were mutually exclusive with one another, like what we see today with Core Specializations.
Back then, there was only the class itself and itâs default class mechanics. Talents only served to build on that concept and they never intended us to deviate from it to any major degree.
No need.
A 4th spec and problem solved.
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What stinks the most is we have another two years before the devs actually revisit classes and then itâll be six years since they removed the spec. I want to see RSV come back, but that amount of wait time is just ridiculous. I have lost all faith in the class development since the spec identity crisis they went through for Legion. Its disappointing, to say the least. I enjoy the game and some of the community, but its just not as fun as it used to be. I barely recognize the class Iâve played exclusively since BC. Iâm not getting any younger, and I fear that by the time Ion pulls his head out of the sand to return RSV to its former glory, itâll be too late for me. I wonât even get to see its triumphant return.
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Yep. Coupled with the fact that we still have no idea whether a change in mindsets is even on the table.
We canât really say that âit isnâtâ as, we all know the devs frequently change their minds on a lot of things, incl the idea that no class should have a 4th spec. But at the same time, we have no idea whether they will actually start to listen to the feedback provided.
I find that the general idea of having defined core specs with fairly unique identities, is a good one. It further allows players to make choices more in line with their preferences. I just think that they should reconsider their past notions of restricting classes in terms of available gameplay options(core specs).
Iâm not saying that every class should have 10 specs each. But if we take RSV as an example. Contrary to what some people like to post on the forums, RSV had A LOT of potential to be further developed as a dedicated core spec, with a design fitting of the modern game and itâs philosophies. Incl those pertaining to the ideas of âSpec Fantasyâ and âSpec Identityâ.
Some say that itâs not possible to design another hunter spec focusing on using ranged weapons, while maintaining a distinguishing approach, separate to that of the other, existing specs we have right now.
I say, it would be the easiest thing in the world(of class development). Because RSV from the beginning had a unique approach to how you wanted to go about, playing it. What itâs damage model was all about.
Much of that is true, and I agree on it in many ways.
For me though, the biggest problem, other than the fact that they decided to delete what, to many players, was arguable the most fun playstyle in the game, is that they insist on classes being designed to rely on external âborrowed powerâ-systems in order to even feel remotely finished.
I want classes to feel complete/finished by default, and any external systems added(themed after specific expansions or otherwise), serve only as to build on the foundation that is the class.
Not like it is now where there is no foundation unless you combine your class with whatâs up next in the upcoming expansion.
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I enjoy the core melee style of sv.
Melee Survival is interesting to me, and fun to take into pvp. I donât want to see it removed. I want to see Ranged Survival returned. I stand by any player that enjoys melee survival. I donât want them to lose a spec, too. This is something I find I am passionate about, because you see arguments on the hunter forums every single day about the removal of ranged survival and addition of melee. My community has been split over it for four years now, and (for lack of a better term) it sucks.
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Id actually like to see SV be choice of melee/ranged based on talents. Its a fun spec
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Only problem with this solution is, one would end up being better, and if it isnât your preferred playstyle, you wonât be happy. Sure some players wouldnât care and still play what they enjoy, but still, could see it being an issue balance wise and causing problems.
Look to what is going on with Frost DKs atm with Blizz not able to figure out and balance 2h vs DW.
True but we already have that issue right now with MM v BM. I really miss Legion MM and right now i feel forced into BM (ranged warrior it feels like tbh, faceroll keys in a given order with infinite movement and zero downtime).