Nothing you just said makes any sense. I don’t think anybody is saying survival has ever been a melee spec, because it was not. It was intended to be over before vanilla released.
This doesn’t make any sense, like at all. When you play an arcane mage you don’t because arcane energy. When you play a destro lock you don’t become fel fire. Nobody but you are making these equivalencies
Also, before the talent overhaul there were still specs, you just didn’t choose a spec and have all your skills handed to you. Your spec depended on your talents, for which there were many builds.
I don’t know that you understand what i said whatsoever, and it seems like you’re just interested in arguing.
I almost think it should be a support role, perhaps more trap and mitigation spec for team play, we already have BM and Marksmanship that are similar in that they are ranged and dps oriented. If survival was more focused on traps, distraction, kiting and being a general nuisance it would be epic!
OK. I suppose there is nothing wrong with campaigning for an implementation that would be at least two years out.
I would have hoped the community would rather focus on how to make the current three specs the best they can be as we have to live with them over the next two years.
Before I picked up my horde hunter I rolled a beast master hunter through legion and a separate beast master / survival hunter at the start of BfA on alliance. Yes, I did roll hunter. I’ve always rolled hunters. It’s sort of my thing since I started playing my first dwarf hunter too many years ago.
Just because you don’t like survival hunter as it is today , it doesn’t mean it’s any less a hunter.
And yes, a lot of players on these forums are saying just that.
Be over what?
Even if that was true, why the heck would that matter then if they never intended for players to actually access it once WoW went live?
You completely missed my point there.
My point was that, just because BM contained a lot of talents that somehow made our pets stronger, that did not mean that we wanted to abandon everything with the class that wasn’t the pet itself. We did not stop prioritizing ranged attack even though BM talents did little to make those attacks stronger.
Again, you missed my point here.
Yes, you are right in that we had a lot of ways we could go down in terms of what choices we made with talent picks. And technically, many called that “specs”.
But the difference between the design of our class back then, with what we see today, is how we now have Core Specializations which are specifically designed for us to play almost entirely different depending on which one we choose.
This was not the case at any point in Vanilla. My point, was that you could pick as many talents as you wanted that focused in some way on melee, whether it was utility, more crit for RS or MB etc. etc.
NOTHING you picked back then, resulted in you, by design, wanting to opt out of being a ranged fighter(one who opted to use the ranged weapon whenever possible, while only utilizing melee in cases where the alternative was not an option).
Again, no, contrary to what you said earlier, SV was not the melee spec back then. Not even early on in it’s original form. Even that version had only partial focus on elements that involved melee for us, and still, nothing from it changed/took priority over our default and primary mechanics - those being ranged.
Again, this is literally what you said. If you want people to take something different from it, other than what can actually be read, you will have to further elaborate on what you intend when saying that “survival was a melee spec”.
Not at all.
I actually want the arguing to stop. I want people to change their mindset towards a solution that would benefit everyone and not just one side.
Specifically, I want RSV to return as a 4th spec for the class. Again, like I suggested below/or something like it(link):
We can do both. Those campaigns aren’t mutually exclusive.
I think the argument is more that the changes made weren’t intended for then-current hunters as it was more to attract others to the class. Ion himself said this in an interview.
Here is the quote again:
Ion: Representation doesn’t necessarily matter as much, I think. We knew with Survival Hunter that we were making a niche spec. It is a melee spec for a class that has traditionally being range. I think that a lot of existing hunters, they are all hunters because they want to be a range class, and so we don’t necessarily expect them or want them to feel like they should be changing; but for new players picking up that class, it is an intriguing option
This is exactly what Illidette argued in your quote.
Does this mean that the idea of a hunter, fighting mostly in melee range, that this does not fit the game? Ofc it fits the game. But that still does not make their decision to remove an existing spec which a lot of players enjoyed, in favor of something that most of those players weren’t asking for, any better.
Do you know what a game in “alpha” means? It’s before the release, and before the larger beta. My point was that blizzard started with a melee Hunter spec, which became the old survival talents.
This doesn’t mean anything for after the game was released, other than the fact that melee survival isn’t a “new idea” for blizzard, it was actually the first idea. I personally like that they made it happen as survival feels different than the other two Hunter specs now.
Anyway, have a good day, I’m done looking at this thread.
They started with a talent category which contained certain talents that somehow focused on melee. Along with some talents that focused on defensives, some on utility, and more.
Again, something that is entirely different from what we see today. A talent-design that did NOT in any way shape or form promote the idea that we should intentionally stop using ranged attacks as hunters, in favor of heading into melee range.
Today, Survival is specifically designed for us to not use ranged weapons at all.
This is why the argument that “SV was a melee spec back then” does not hold up.
I think Survival needs some work to make it viable. It feels like it’d be better as part of a different class than working with Hunter. It doesn’t feel like there’s any synergy with your pet (much like how Marksmanship Hunters often forego having a pet for better dps).
I’m talking post-spec era when 3 specs became a thing in cataclysm. Survival turned into an awkward “ranged pet archer with a 20% heal after every enemy death and some traps” which had…0 identity. It sucked. Melee survival>>>>ranged survival.
I honestly hate any playstyle that requires me to set a trap down in the heat of battle ever 12 seconds. Click-point-click. Somehow Explosive Trap had made it into Ranged Survivals rotation a few times and it was the only thing I hated about the spec.
But, the thing I enjoyed most about SV was it was all dots and felt like the energizer bunny. It was everything I wanted out of BM but could never get, which was a fluid rotation, mobility, and the damage was coming from the hunter rather than the pet. I could instantly swap targets without the lag of my slow pet worrying me. I had burst with lock and load props. Survival felt better to play than the other two specs (but just barely above MM).
I honestly believe it was a mistake to add the SV abilities to the MM tree and they should have been added to BM tree. Explosive Shot should have replaced Kill Command when chosen, and caused your mastery to increase the potency of your magical abilities. Black Arrow should have been a separate talent on the tree and Serpent Sting should have been baseline for all specs.
Survival was originally intended to be the melee spec and launched as such in Vanilla, it was changed due to some issues (explained by a dev sometime ago, I can’t quote it) but it was reworked and returned.
I really liked legion survival. It was a true melee with i think about 5 or 6 melee abilities. However it was only my alt so im not really going to be against anything blizz does if its related to what ppl that main survival want. But i loved a very melee survival.
I’ve always liked using traps for damage. I mostly enjoyed the old Immolation Trap and Explosive Trap though. The newer ones we see that is basically a root and bleed is of less interest. Sure, they fit thematically, but yeah…
Anyway, I can understand that such frequent use of traps for damage can result in a fairly awkward “rotation/feel”. 12 seconds is way too short. In fact, I would say that even the regular CD of 30 seconds is in the same spot.
For me, I find that traps used for damage are best served for situational use rather than “rotational”. A trap with a mid-range CD of 1min or perhaps even 1m30s allows the trap to be a tool for a priority target and not just “use it on everything, always”…
This being the reason as to why I made my design like I did for Immolation Trap.
Another reason for why I want traps for damage is because it opens up a lot of interesting(subjective ofc) ways to build on it further, it allows for a different approach to the theme in general. Something people have shown interest in in the past.
Same.
Also, much of how they have realised the theme/fantasy of a munitions expert and trapper. It just fits the class very well.
Sorry, can’t agree here.
It should’ve been kept as it’s own separate spec. Period.
