Dear Blizzard,
If you are reading this, you must have seen the long trail of posts concerning a few big problems with rated content:
- Carries
- Gearing scheme
- Broken match making system
Regardless of the other problems, I’m going to just focus on these three problems and I think I have 1 solution for all three, and I think it would be trivial to implement as well!
- Carrying is rampant today. And there’s no real good way to target carrying directly. You could ban usage of words in LFG titles like “WTS” or “Selling”, like you did with banning URIs in titles. However, people are now just titling things “Arenafans . n e t” instead and the same could be applied to “W T S” or “W_T_S” etc. And I don’t think that should be the solution either. The core problem with carrying is the bad experience it creates for the player who walks out of farming Honor through normal BGs and into Arenas or RBGs for the first time, in full 197 gear and gets 1 shot by some 43k hp rogue or 52k hp warlock. It’s not fun and I’m sure we all want to prevent it. The only way this scenario can even happen is because a player who has clearly crossed the various thresholds you have laid out and gotten access to much better gear than this new 197 ilvl player. Why should that 226ilvl player who has crossed 2100 even be in a 1200mmr game? Because they are tanking their MMR to sell carries.
- These thresholds that you have laid out incentivize players to push higher ratings and have regular rewards along the way to higher rated content. This is good. However, there is a huge problem with the way it is working right now. For example, we have a group of players who are pushing 1600 rating in RBGs. As they get closer to 1599, they are more and more likely to face a group of players who have all crossed 1600, gotten the new upgraded gear and then dropped below 1600 MMR because they lost a game. Now you have 10 213 ilvl players fighting 10 207 ilvl players. And you might say this is uncommon, or “Just invite better players,” etc. and while you do sometimes invite better players, the other team is also inviting better players than themselves which means you are fighting 1800+ rated players in a 1500+ mmr game. The problem isn’t solved. And it is actually very common.
- Lastly, we have a problem where if you win 2 or 3 games in a row with the same team, your rating is jumping leaps and bounds way beyond where you really should be. This just means you have a busted MMR system. Never in any world should a group of sub 213ilvl players be fighting a full team of 220+ geared people in this world where PvP gear is so important and small changes in ilvl mean huge differences in outcomes.
The Solution
tl;dr: Now for the solution for all three problems. So many other games do this already, it’s shocking that it’s not in WoW already: Players who cross a particular threshold should not be allowed to go below that threshold in the future.
In Apex Legends, for example, if a player crosses into Gold rank, they won’t ever go below Gold ranking in the same season. They may face some highly skilled Silver players but that’s okay in a game where there is no gear component. In WoW, where gear is a huge component, there is no reason for groups to be pitted against people above their skill and gear brackets. Remember, rating is intrinsically linked to gear now. If there wasn’t this tie in, you wouldn’t have to do this. However, removing that whole system is both costly and, personally, a bad solution. All you have to do to stop people tanking their rating, fighting players who are higher skilled and geared than them, and to stop groups from having their MMRs jump way beyond where it should be is to make rating downwards sticky.
Criticisms:
- One immediate criticism of this change is that you will still have the problem of players who have crossed higher thresholds, like 2100, grouping up with players who are fresh and having an MMR that’s still much lower than 2100.
- Response: In arenas specifically, since it’s just 2 or 3 players the impact of a 2100 rating on the overall rating of the group will be significant. The average MMR will still be high for the team. In RBGs, yes, you can still have heavy hitters on the team and that’s fine. That’s something all groups can and should be allowed to do, their contribution will be some fraction of the overall MMR and the game. However, since they will likely bring up the average MMR of the team, it is possible they raised it beyond some threshold like 1400 or 1600, meaning they won’t be facing teams that are rated below those thresholds. This does also disassemble any attempts at carrying since you need multiple skilled and geared players to carry 1 or 2 unskilled and/or ungeared players which will raise the rating much higher.
- Another immediate criticism of this change is the exact implementation of how newly formed teams will be rated when half the team hasn’t crossed the next threshold and half of them have. Specifically, if you have 5 players who were 1810 rating, and 5 players who were 1650 rating. The team MMR would be somewhat closer to the mid 1700s, while half the team is 1800+.
- This is a valid criticism, and this solution doesn’t solve this problem. However, it’s no worse than it is today. The current system means players go up and down inside the bracket they are at. As they go higher, they fight more skilled and geared groups and lose. After the change, it is more likely that they are just fighting more skilled groups with some more geared players, rather than whole teams of more skilled and more geared players.
While it is unlikely that this gets attention of a blue, I’m curious what everyone else thinks and am open to criticisms and suggestions. We all want WoW to be more fun and engaging while being less punishing for unsatisfying reasons.
5 Likes
Bring back templates hello?
2 Likes
Do you mean stat templates? I think that takes away from player agency that they’re trying to increase. I’m not convinced that stat templates will solve these problems without introducing just as big if not bigger new problems.
3 Likes
Stat templates just for arenas… leave the ilvl chase for mythic pluses and raids… I think people would rather climb the arena ladders because of their “skill” rather than being 20+ ilvl and dunking on the lower ilvl people… you also have a chance at beating the people carrying because they still do make mistakes but you can’t capitalize on them because when they do the gear difference saves their butt
1 Like
So there was a whole set of reasons that whole system was removed from the game and I don’t mind keeping it removed, but conversation about those reasons aside, the real reason why what I’m suggesting is a good solution is because of how simple it is. It’s just changing some lines of code that look like player.newRating = calculateNewMmr(opponentMmr, playerMmr); to player.newRating = max(getClosestThresholdBelow(playerMmr), calculateNewMmr(opponentMmr, playerMmr));. Obviously, obviously, oversimplified but you get my point. It’s just a change in MMR calculation rather than adding or changing or removing a whole new system.
1 Like
Counter point: we all keep paying our subs so why should they stop just doing what they want?
2 Likes
Idk honestly I really believe if templates where still part of arena people would be were they should be in rating and carries would have a harder time carrying… they removed templates because people felt like there was no progression but for arena progression should be achieve in g your tittles cosmetics and mounts as a showcase of what you achieved… as one post said it’s not even a competition if a Formula 1 race car is racing against a dodge caravan
1 Like
@Mocosanto, I agree. We’re all sired by Blizzard and they’re building this game with the “BDSM Paddle” Bellular mentioned lol.
@Cosmix, I think that would remove gear from the mix, and make the PvP scene only about skill. I like that. But the problem with that is then they need to spend all this new effort to incentivize players to push PvP to higher ratings that for many, just seeing a higher number isn’t enough. Spending all your time in PvP means you have nothing to show for every other aspect of the game except maybe achieves, and if they add it transmogs. Whereas, PvE means you get new gear and new achieves and beat PvP players in duels and World PvP and potentially in normal BGs, if you don’t template those. I think getting gear through PvP and PvE that are better in their respective use cases is a good thing (remember resilience?). It means there’s incentive to doing a little of everything, iff you’re interested.
Still reward them the gear with the ilvl so they can feel good about dueling and battlegrounds but as soon as rated arenas are involved template it… I mean it would be easier to balance classes I would think you can actually log onto and alt and que rated you won’t sit in LFG for the entire night looking for someone to play with because u took a week or 2 off and now behind 5 ilvl
For example I have been playing classic for almost 3 months now over retail and last night I logged in on my Dk to run some arenas i qued for a skrim to warm up 40k enh sham and Ret pally on other team I’m roughly 31k up on frost Dk they opened with acend and wings I answered with icebound and AMS legit died in a global lol so after seeing that wth would I que rated when obviously I need to spend 2-3months PvEIng trying to catch everyone else.
1 Like
I have a 65% win rate doing carries on my enhancement shaman. That same shaman was 205ilvl for most of the carries. Game knowledge and genuine coaching skills will win most matches. If I can pilot my character and another players character verbally, Id say winning is probably deserved. Now imagine if my shaman was even and not at a disadvantage. carries will still happen.
Losing to a boost team where the booster isn’t stacked with gear would not bother me, what is discouraging is losing to a booster with such a gear advantage that in that slim chance that they do fumble on something that slip up is reinforced with gear which in my mind shouldn’t be a factor in competitive play. I don’t mind the idea of boosting but it is annoying when the booster who is most likely a better player also has the gear advantage as well which turns it almost into a impossible W.
2 Likes
@Cosmix, yeah, I don’t think PvP should necessarily be easy when you are several months behind the grind, there should be reward for playing the game more than other players. On top of that, I think templating will just reignite the troubles of expansions past. I think we just need to try and prevent over geared players entering undergeared lobbies.
@Bjornx, exactly, I don’t think you should be punished for being skilled. I think that’s exactly what we want the game to be about: skill. We just make it harder for skilled players who have clearly progressed past the thresholds from being placed against unskilled and ungeared players. The carrier would have to roll a new toon and gear them up enough to start the process again.
I like the game but I don’t like being forced into PvE content and time gated things… myself and many player I talk to would rather just log in run a hour or two of rated games and log off without worrying about that sweaty player that plays 10 hours a day still clicks and will still win because of that gear gap
1 Like
That what Ion Hazzikostas says
The reward is being better
If I take three months off and smoke you that’s a you problem
Templates 4 life
5 Likes
@Cosmix, exactly, if you want to excel in rated PVP content, just do that. You shouldn’t be forced into other content you don’t want to do. Doing PvE content for PvP gear is not a problem any more since you are rewarded for PvP with gear already. And that sweaty player, if they’re not good or can’t find a good/consistent group, won’t be rewarded with better gear if they can’t win well matched games. If they do win, they go up and don’t come down.
@Laryenticer, I’m not saying templates are evil and shouldn’t be considered. I think we just trade some problems for other problems. If we can solve those problems as well then sure. However, I made this post to propose a solution that would be easy to implement as well.
Honestly how many years have gone by and there’s always a problem it will never be fixed… but you add templates next Tuesday and things are looking a lot better I’ll tell you that
Right now retail pvp feels like classic pvp… who’s gunna win that nax geared warrior or that mc geared warrior
1 Like
One simple solution without this complicated mess you’ve created is just to have someone take 5 minutes to login to the game and open LFG. Literally every single LFG section is spammed with WTS. All they’d have to do is go through and ban every single one. 5 minutes a week is all it would take. That is the only solution.
I don’t think carries are the main problem yea you may que into them but it’s not consistent which leaves room for the continuation of climbing… just the gear fluctuation in players it just ruins the competitive aspect… sorry I sound like a broken record…
1 Like