Probably had to do with gear. If all players had the same gear its a non-issue
Up to a point, sure. But eventually, more people on your team means longer and longer queue times, or a one-sided world. Just look at what happened to the Flamelash PvP server in Classic.
???
No? The opposite of this is what happens.
Unless you only do unrated BGâs, the more people playing the shorter the queues.
Honestly, this is why I donât participate in PvP.
Specifically, the weeklies.
Back in the day, Vanilla, I did a lot of BGs. Win a few, lose a few. But just playing you get the Points (whatever they were) to advance. Show up, participate, and you get to advance.
With the weeklies, and the âpowerâ of their upgrades, you canât just participate. You have to win. And if you donât âwinâ by the end of the week, well, opportunity lost.
I made a concerted effort to do PvP and weeklies for a couple of weeks back in SL, and I never once completed any of the weeklies.
Now, I know Iâm not âgoodâ at PvP. But Iâm pretty good at âshowing up, and participatingâ. But that really didnât net me much of anything, so I stopped.
I donât want to encourage âshow up, and camp the entranceâ style of âcomplete 10 BGs this weekâ. Players should PLAY, but with the âwinâ barrier (because of my server, because of being Alliance, because of being a Warlock, because of being me) was too high.
So, i canât readily get on the bandwagon. To start as a punching bag and slowly gain power until I can reach gear parity with others to improve success.
So I donât.
Which is too bad, I think.
Conditional reforging would be a good thing. A pvp activated choice and then the choice for everything else. The cata formula(cost) for conversion worked pretty well.
But I donât really have to worry about this since currently my top stats for my main are the same for pvp and pve.
The only issue to me is the ilvl gap.
Gear is already universal. What are you on about?
PvP gear just happens to get bonus ilvl in PvP, but if youâre a high end PvE player (ilvl 630+), you can just get the 2-set trinket and go ham in PvP, no honor/conquest needed past that.
Talent split does suck though.
I do, it would be a blast, just like we should have had MoP Remix PvP.
There is enough space in the game to accommodate a PvP mode where gear dictates the outcome.
Overall, PvP should be template based and not gear dependent though.
Progression would be achieved in the form of cosmetics.
Maybe âPlay 10 BGs total OR win 3 BGsâ should be the way to go for these kinds of quests.
We would need more active monitoring on PvP to fight bots, trolls and AFKers though.
Then there is very little incentive and the template idea was horrible. Both of those ideas destroyed participation in Legion.
I loved Legion for it though.
/shrug
The bulk of the playerbase clearly didnât.
Thatâs another huge hurdle to PvP, itâs just hard to get into because your intro experience is basically being thrown into a pack of hungry wolves, after donning an outfit laced with prime steaks.
You get mauled by a cat or stabbed by a rogue and after being stunned youâre dead in mere moments. Why? Who knows, time to respawn in 30 seconds. Then the fact you have not one, but three âtiersâ of PvP gear to build up just to be competitive on a gear level, when you barely have a grasp on whatâs going on?
If gear, and by association Conquest, was removed, itâd be easier for folks to at least try to get into PvP without feeling like theyâre stubbing both their toes while getting to a point where they can even play the game, let alone try to compete.
But yeah, the âwin x thingsâ quests are silly. Iâm at a level where I feel Iâm âokayâ at PvP but winning BGs often requires an entire team in sync, unless you go in with full premades every time and just stomp people who arenât so fortunate.
I know. The bulk of the PvP playerbase just wants to bully lower geared players.
But I come from the FGC (Guilty Gear up to Rev 2 mainly), where getting better IS the progression, so yeah.
Which is why I also think a PvE gear based PvP mode would be the ultimate one for this playerbase.
What is this based on, though?
The grind is part of the experience. You get stomped on your way to do the stomping. Thatâs life.
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Having war mode on makes bloody tokens super easy to get (vet gear currency, not a total loss), and winning the supply chests while in war mode offers 60 conquest points per chest. If someone wanted to get conquest gear they could do it this way but would be super slow. The weeklies also give some conquest. A few of my alts could be geared max between the conquest gear and purple crafted heraldry items.
It is possible to win in pvp by just keeping the objectives in mind. My noob mage âcapturedâ four carts the first week in Deephaul Ravine, one of my shining moments lol. Lack of op gear is not always a complete barrier to winning.
Back to the OPâs point: I donât mind two sets of gear but itâs sort of unwieldy to upgrade and cart around. I"d like to use one pvp set the entire xpac with minimal upgrading once itâs done.
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Have you ever PvPd? You know what this is based on.
Iâd rather grind skill and strategies over gear, like in actual Fighting Games.
The additional grind for gear is a PITA.
This is nigh impossible in some realm sets depending on your faction.
In here, itâs always, ALWAYS, any time of day, me alone vs. 5-12 horde.
^THIS^
Losing 15-16 bag slots for it does suck.
The actual way to grind conquest while having fun at the moment should be BG Blitz, since you get conquest on loss if itâs not a stomp.
We already did that. It didnât go well. A lot of people left over it
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This is a common thing brought up, and itâs not that simple. Turns out thereâs an entire team in the way of those objectives, and BGs are designed so that conflict revolves around these objectives.
You only win the objectives if the enemy team is dying, and in the case of Deephaul, itâs easy to cap the carts if the enemy team is being graveyard farmed as thereâs only one way back to the objectives, and itâs through a bunch of red names.
At least in AB you can often get away from people by going wide, but even then thatâs not always the case.
Fact is, enemy players need to be going away if youâre going to be going after objectives, and it doesnât matter how much you go for an objective if the only thing you capture is a visit to the Spirit Healer.
Two problems with this:
-WM gear only goes to 636, and leaves out many important slots for gear, including what I would argue the most important, trinkets. Going into PvP without a CC trinket is a death sentence.
-Thereâs extreme faction imbalances in WM. In my case, thereâs a dozen Alliance for one Horde. Iâve managed to sneak a chest or two but I have to be on top of it as soon as it drops, and I need to down whoever may be there already quickly, if itâs only one. If itâs multiple, theyâre often back from the Spirit Healer before I can loot anything, let alone recover from previous skirmishes, and thatâs if a horde (ironically) of Alliance hasnât came to swoop in.
I think some are shocked thereâs any resistance at all.
You donât remember how horrible it was for the side without certain leggoss. You donât remember Humans running double dps H trinkets when EMFS was a thing.
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Iâm human, I remember it all.
Some people just enjoy chaos and imbalance if controlled.
It was the season to not take PvP seriously, just like 8.3 and corruption kills.
It has its value.
Once again, I think set stat templates in PvP would be ideal.
Pick 1 out of 4, favoring certain secondaries/builds. Done.
Rating/cosmetics is enough for progression in almost any PvP game, why not in WoW?
I think the largest barriers to pvp is simply inexperience and being afraid to take risks. I love that thereâs not a huge repair bill tied to it, and you can pull a 'we had it all along" win out of your phutt simply by persisting until the very end. A well-timed hunterâs bursting or implosive shot that blows em off the bridge helps your team, whether you are in noob gear or not.
The team that is roflol stomping and steamrolling everything are pvp vets, and those matches are over fairly quickly, just move onto next. I think the opponent having more experience in pvp is the barrier more than the gear, because gear is relatively easy to get.
I think Blizz is trying to walk a fine line between making PvP a super exclusive club of gladiator-caliber players, and making it accessible to average players. The gear is an incentive. If you dabble in PvP, youâre incentivized to keep playing, because you feel your gear upgrades contribute to your power. Thatâs one reason the inflated ilvls are useful⌠the impact per piece of acquired PvP gear is quite large. Of course, thatâs probably just a sideshow to them (edit: âthemâ meaning the pieces of PvP gear) being irrelevant in PvE (edit: explained below).
I also lived through the evolution of PvP gear into what it is today, and was both a fairly hardcore raider and avid PvPer. The impact of PvE gear in PvP was a minor nuisance for average players like me (~1800 arena rating was average-ish back then), but for those pushing glad, getting killed by a trinket proc that was inaccessible to you was pretty unfortunate. But I suspect the more problematic (from Blizzardâs perspective) influence was PvP gear in PvE. You could gear up for raids so much quicker by purchasing PvP gear for the slots that you didnât get upgrades for in heroics/raids. That really messed with Blizzardâs concept of PvE progression, IMO.