Made 1 Billion gold = 70,000 USD Bnet balance = 6,000 WOW time tokens

So let’s be clear here. It wasn’t an exploit.

All he did was go and pick up dirt piles, which you can still do today.

That being said, getting that many shards per pile on average clearly wasn’t intended either. So Blizzard should have done something (e.g. roll back some of the KP).

There is also the fact that the he essentially grinded his way to an additional 15 KP from the renown rewards.

Not sure if he did the Consortiuum cheese too, which would be another 20.

Either way, you would effectively have a 2 node advantage over the competition, which is ridiculous.

Say what you want about the legendaries, but there really was no cheesing it. You were ahead if you crafted your 15 early, while they were in demand. You could “catch up” either with a massive gold investment or massive amounts of farming.

But you couldn’t just corner a market or hold on to it for nearly as long as you can with the KP timegate.

This is why I hate this overall profession system (or how it turned out). It was way too susceptible to cheesing from day 1. I didn’t even realize it was this bad.

Then there was the beta advantage, which again was massive. Being able to go day 1 and know exactly how to min/max is massive.

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Are people really this envious that they want to see someone be punished for simply playing a game? If you actually looked at the guy’s other videos, he only makes videos about making gold in WoW. He’s someone who actually puts in the time and effort to make gold.

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DF professions and all the nonsensical broken things that were/are/will be about them are cringe.

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The new profession system and work orders are a failure.
That’s really all there is to it.

I’m sure that Blizzard is well aware that the crafting orders aren’t really being used, and that most players are getting to about 50 skill and then just choosing to stop interacting with it.

What they might not be aware of is how disappointed people are in it.

The profession overhaul and the crafting order systems are this expansion’s Torghast. I would expect it to be changed every patch, but not the changes it needs, and then, 2 years from now, after devoting thousands of hours of time and talent to it, they will just throw it away and start over.

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Um … that’s what “exploit” means.

( But yes, I agree it was a grey zone where it’s hard to tell the difference between what was intended and unintended … a time-gated system that nevertheless had so many difference sources of knowledge and interacting buffs was sort of doomed to fall to a design flaw somewhere in the complexity )

What this illustrates is that beta isn’t used to report bugs, just gather ways to exploit the game on day one of release. And then Blizzard lets the damage stay in the game.

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When it comes to grind-related design flaws, I’m afraid I rarely notice them in betas to report because I just don’t ever play temporary beta servers with the same intensity I play a permanent live server.

(then again, given the topic of the thread, I clearly don’t play live servers with the same intensity as some people)

oh wait is that the same “average casual” you alluded to in that other thread, the one who plays for 10+ hours per day, more wow-hours than the regular humans 9-5 work week?

suuuuuper casual, so chill. More time playing wow than sleeping.

I’m guessing this guy in the video had access to beta and instead of tested, merely used it as “early access” to find the best gimmicks for his own benefit? I think blizzard needs to revisit its “testing” regime. Its obviously not working is sweeping reforms are required on week 1 of an expansion.

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Sort of. Exploiting would require “knowingly” doing this.

We still don’t really know how dragon shards are supposed to work. So he could’ve started grinding out the dirt for the rep and then the dragon shards were a lucky coincidence/accident.

It’s not like he was forcing dirt piles to spawn, or doing some trick to make them drop shards, or doing anything sketchy.

Still - this was on Blizzard to take corrective action - not again him, but in general. Removing some of the KP and fixing the drop rate of dragon shards.

If I accidentally found some loophole that let me level my character to 71. Blizzard wouldn’t just fi the loophole and leave me at level 71 giving me an advantage over everyone else in the game.

If I only cared about this

But that’s where one has to ask what a player’s responsibility is when they encounter something that “clearly wasn’t intended”, especially when it’s within that player’s area of expertise.

( I don’t really have a good answer to my question, it’s just one I ponder a fair bit )

Insane. There will always be people playing these games in exploitive ways, and it seems like it’s only getting worse. I’m a proud ‘casual’ and have never and will never play this way; therefore i’ll always be behind in every way - UNLESS i fork over literal $$$s to blizz, which i also WON’T do. While i don’t care about how much gold others have, it does matter to me whether or not they’ve exploited to gain it.

Fair…but how clear are dragon shards to this day?

We still don’t fully know the sources, or what the frequency is supposed to be. We certainly didn’t know in the first 2 days of the xpac.

You aren’t wrong, but I don’t think it applies in this scenario.

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Where do you think the people who bought 1BN gold are going to spend it, Wendy’s?

They’re going to come right back to WOW. It’s kind of a win for them.

I believe we associate “exploit” with people doing something ingame that isn’t normal gameplay to gain something they normally would not be able to have. Picking up dirt piles is normal gameplay. The incorrect loot rewards is a “glitch.” Idk how Blizz would adjust knowledge pts already spent on professions already lvled. If they were going to try some kind of reset, it needed done immediately hopefully within 24 hrs. After a week, the first week, it would have been very punitive to the new expansion players as well as embarrassing to admit such a mistake so early in the launch.

Since it doesn’t really affect the market now, it seems like “water over the dam.” Just because some have a huge gain over others in advancing their crafting doesn’t mean everyone has to buy from them. Or pay exorbitant prices. Have some sense and self-restraint. Rather than force yourself to buy the “best” for all your savings, place a CO, or work on improving your crafting yourself, or look for a guildmate who needs a CO and is lvling that specialization already.

There have always been players who were motivated to race to crafting firsts and try to make the initial gold from being first. The gold caps are very high now and with add-ons that allow mass posting, it’s not hard to know who the power sellers are on the AH.

Rather than envy another’s hard work or rage at Blizz for allowing initial DF players to gain massive profession skill-ups, let’s look at the big picture and state of the game now.

I started DF professions a week or so ago. I only had 4K gold from Chapter 1 questing. Players who have more gold can buy profession tools, etc. for thousands. That would be everything I have and some I don’t have. So I started with gathering and crafting from vendor recipes. I sold a few things at reasonable prices (a lot of inflated prices makes undercutting really easy). I browsed the AH for what I could make–items or reagents–and sold what might be needed for COs or basic low quality gear. It fills a slot and it’s cheap. I bought the same. It’s all I could afford starting out. Eventually, I made 10K.

I bought some reagents myself and used the Pub CO to get a tool made by another profession. I’m 70/100 with all the vendor recipes and 100/100 gathering. I could keep doubling my current profit as the market for the mid-lvl reagents and goods is still there.

You don’t need to be first to make gold. That said, items are not the high prices that “firsts” can post. What is more curious to me than “firsts” is who can pay those top prices? If players didn’t drop gold on inflated goods, where would be the inflated profit? The fact is, players bringing hoards of gold from longstanding characters and their “need” to max out ASAP with the best possible X? Y? … well, sometimes everything, drives this market the most.

Do I envy that? No. I don’t need the best to make gold and improve my character. I’m not that insecure. I can have a certain admiration for those who have a sincere desire to craft the best items so they need the best tools NOW. But … It’s not necessary. Most mid-tier crafting is top quality with 20 knowledge pts and 50 profession skill. Those reagents do have an active market.

I think there’s a lot of players worried, unnecessarily, about the pace of their progression. As if they’re being left behind. If everyone kept up with the world firsts, there wouldn’t be any gold to make because everyone would be able to make everything for themselves. Would that be bad? Not necessarily. But fast and easy crafting systems make obselete trade systems.

Conversely, I’m not threatened by buying what I can afford and gathering what I can’t. That’s normal gameplay progression and it balances the inflation of the market. When prices are too high, players go farm it instead. When prices are low, players save their time and just buy it.

The new crafting specializations make it even moreso that we won’t be able to craft everything ourselves even at max lvls. We have to specialize and sell what we can make to buy what we cannot. It’s intentionally exclusive to encourage trade and engage players in an active market.

Because veteran players have a lot of gold, they are willing to spend a lot on new items. That said, so long as players can go farm what they need, price gouging has a natural limit. Well, the limit is what players are willing to spend.

I don’t find gathering particularly difficult and sometimes fun, as the video narrator said, with the Dragonriding.

Since it’s possible to sell items mid-tier at top quality, I’m not afraid of getting stuck with a dead or useless profession. In fact, this is the first time that lvling a profession under max lvl is still profitable.

What is holding back a lot of COs, progression, and even AH sales on mid-tier items is that not enough players seem to understand the new crafting system, the AH market, or the COs. And that’s natural. How crafting is working now is new so it will take tutorials and word-of-mouth to help players engage with it. In fact, I feel like I made some nice gold with crafting for the first time because few were engaging with it.

If we consider prior crafting that required max lvl to make anything wanted, the new crafting is vastly superior. Also, since when was crafting not just a gold sink with items selling for next to nothing while gathering was the main way to make gold? I’m making mid-tier items and they’re worth more than the raw mats for the first time. Since buyers have to buy reagents to supply COs, there’s a market now for reagents that normally were rarely sold because it would only be to another crafter of the same profession. It’s brilliant really.

Tbh, there’s a lot to like about the new crafting system. It’s definitely not what it used to be and maybe that’s not a bad thing.

One thing players may need some time to realize is we don’t have to be maxed to craft something useful and profitable.

We’re meant to specialize and yes, we’ll have to buy reagents or items from others of our same profession sometimes. This could be the dawning of profession guilds.

We don’t necessarily need the best initial craft. If Recrafting let’s us improve items, we might have more leeway than we think about initial quality.

i mean i do play for like 2 hours a day at best and managed to buy a token yesterday.

The bug was that you could do the profession quests over and over and gain free knowledge and rep, buy plans that should not have been a thing and ahd the ability to make stuff that should not have been able to be made at that point if not for the bug.

The other thing was the shards dropping like flies from shovelling sh** and stealing people’s clothes so people went ham and gained a ton of knowledge that was not planned, so one person who was a week late or focused on the story and all that first was left behind.

Those who cheesed the whole thing were able to capatalise on the market and make items that only a select few were able to and overcharge by a lot and just make bank. And since they are in front by a ton of knowledge points and rep, by the time the rest of us catch up the intended way we will be making things that people have had for weeks and be worthless.

Add in that some people deep specced into crap and it puts them even further behind. Like great you can make a wrist… that no one is buying. That’s half the problem with these profession trees is that you think you might want this or that, but the market says we want something else so a lot of people are taking professions and speccing into trees that are also worthless, therefore by the time they eventually get enough knowledge to spec into something useful it’s way too late and your profession is worthless.

It’s just in game money. Not like you can use it to buy macs or Burger King right ? At most just buy game time . Let him enjoy it. Nobody cares lol.

Re-specing within professions does seem a concern since normally anyone of a profession could adjust to market supply and demand. With increased specialization within professions, what if we have a lot in one area so that the market crashes but few in another area with one seller asking 75K?

Without respecing options (either gold reset cringe or time-gated CD or something else), how would we naturally respond to a need in the market? Players come and go ingame and listing availability and demand constantly changes.

Do we really have to reroll to respec into the same profession with a different inital Specialization? So far, seems to be so for anyone aiming for full profession flexibility. Though maybe it’s more efficient in the end to max the profession completely on one character?

Which is still a blizzard issue.

they need to see the data in the beta. actually break down numbers.

I’ve been in other games their beta’s lead to some very contentious changes for expac features. people wanted the change(s) really bad. pitch forks and torches were being given out in abundance.

and their devs to try reason swung by and showed us why on the boards.

We saw the charts and went…ahh. that doesn’t look right at all. can we fix this at least?

Sure…if we nerf these 4 other things. we know you’d not like this either so alas we are taking away the thing you never had to begin with.

and reasonable players went fair enough.

why should a dev do this? Some players don’t send reports lol.

but their data tells the whole tale. if, you know, looked at.

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