100%, and I’ve been arguing forever now that max rewards from M+ should go far higher than they do. I don’t think anyone attempting to argue in good faith would try to claim the effort vs reward is equivalent between M+ and raid, it’s not even close. But too many people who heavily support the raid side of this discussion pretend like the only solution to this problem is to further limit the quality of gear that can come from M+.
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Gear won from Mythic raiding should be scaled down to below heroic level in mythic+ dungeons. Mythic raiding should not be the best way to gear up for dungeons.
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Suppose dungeons in DF take an average of 25 min to complete.
8 x 25 = 3.33 hours.
If a person already raids six hours a week, we’re talking about 9.3 hours at a minimum weekly a player is going to need to play the game to keep up with their guild mates.
Idk, I don’t really have a problem with this. The infinite loot system m+ has had is a problem.
People don’t keep re-clearing raid bosses because the loot is finite. Conceptually, I don’t think m+ should be any different
I agree, OP. This was a really bad change.
Hopefully this changes before launch.
We do have an extra month after launch before mythic plus releases I believe.
So providing feedback is really good because they have time to change
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With the new system in TWW it’s more comparable for having to do a 10 for mythic vault and with the new affix changes it’s considerably harder versus mythic raiding to fill in your vault but the gap still hasn’t closed entirely. Because mythic plus is spammable and at the end of the day doing a 10 with 5 people is still going to be inherently easier than doing a mythic boss with 20 especially the deeper you go into the tier.
And you can still finish a dungeon and get something for your time so it is more lenient in many other metrics. Obviously it’s not making light of either mode but /shrug
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What do they need mythic raid gear to do exactly? The point that level of gear is to push farther into mythic raid and to reward those who do. You don’t need mythic raid gear to farm herbs.
You don’t have any experience with either so how would you know?
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We also need Myth track gear to progress further into Mythic+.
Pushing keys in next season beyond 13+ will require myth track gear.
Why then Mythic+ players have to wait months to do that?
Why are Mythic+ players being forced into Mythic raiding so they can progress in Mythic+?
Mythic+ better start dropping Myth track gear.
Personal opinion here. M+ and Mythic Raiding are completely different. One requires 20 well coordinated people, the other requires 5. By default making Mythic Raiding “harder” BUT i don’t see the harm in adding Mythic 1/4 gear in say M+15-20(broad assumption of difficuly here, just an example). The only thing that would need to be done to make it so that neither one is “catered” to (even though Mythic Raiders still have to do M+ even if they don’t want to just for crests), would be make it so Myth gear drops are 1-2 per boss, per dungeon on a weekly lockout. Or something similar. That should be similar loot to Mythic raid, with the same lockout and any extra loot coming directly from Vault. After lockout is hit for every boss, only drop Hero gear again. (Since M+ is spammable and meant to be, its got to be dropped to hero after each boss lockout.)
Edit: these aren’t the best numbers and are most likely off and not what they should be. Just using them for the purposes of example and only that.
They could make those keys have ID lockouts as well like the raid! 
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Players who play engage multiple game modes get rewarded faster than one-trick ponies, makes sense to me.
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Well, everything you say makes sense to you because it is your argument.
And you’re wrong, ponie.
Why would someone who raids and does m+ not gear faster than someone who only does one or the other? Two sources of gear are better than one and provides a more well-rounded play experience.
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Not true remember Ion said there are three end game pilliars 1
1 M+
2 raiding
3 arena
So why change now? If they want to change something than Ion must come out and explain what have change.
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Gearing faster and finishing the season with much better gear are entirely two different concepts.
People who only play mythic plus should be able to obtain their full BiS from mythic plus only - even if that BiS takes longer to acquire.
Stop rewarding people with an increased advantage in mythic plus simply because they choose to engage with an entirely separate end-game pillar (raiding).
People aren’t able to raid and get the best pvp gear from raid - the same should be true for mythic plus.
We have three separate end game pillars:
- Mythic plus
- PvP
- Raid
Let’s separate them all the same way that pvp is separated.
People don’t want to dedicate their lives to having a second job (raiding) when they play a video game in their leisure time
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Yea trying doing a +20 keys right now on live while no bricking it. Love to see do it.
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but thats for everyone not just you so not an advantage , however I do admit they just prolonged your suffering 
Which is still the case since m+ only players can get myth track from the vault.
4 Pillars actually (world content / delves), but 3 of the pillars are PvE and thus share gear.
its not the end of the world change wise but it certainly sucks a lot of reason to do anything over 7 til you’re geared enough to do 10s. I thought S3 was a perfect balance.
Hardest content is M+ and it’s not debatable. It scales infinitely.
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You don’t need mythic track gear to get all the mythic raiding achievements besides world first.
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