Mythic raiders don’t need myth gear either to complete the raid. Stop being a gear gatekeeper.
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Can’t really speak about what the mythic raiding comparison to M+ would be because I don’t mythic raid.
But I can compare M+ to heroic. For me at least, a +6 is harder than heroic raiding. Raiding is a casual and much more predictable experience to execute. Much more time just doing rotations. It is more frustrating watching a more casual guild make the same mistakes over and over and under perform, but I’m not frantically target switching, worrying about interrupts, and constantly moving around.
And the inverse appears to be true for the casuals that do heroic. They have much more trouble in M+ and without some extremely mismatched carry helping them they wouldn’t be timing a +6.
Maybe mythic raiding is different and you are having to use every defensive CD and interrupt.
People are complaining how many dungeons it takes to upgrade gear with crests
And Blizzard made it more?
I don’t understand, why are they making the game worse? This is Shadowlands tier development
Edit: I also want to just get off my chest, RAIDING IS NOT VERY HARD.
People act like it’s this massive challenge compared to M+, don’t even pretend it’s not just doing a rotation on the boss and doing your little side activity your raid leader told you to do once or twice a fight.
The fights might have complexity, but each individual player’s job is not complex.
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It’s the business model. They’re not selling boxes, they’re trying to keep you subbed and that means keeping you from reaching your goals as long as possible without pushing you away.
And that seems to be reactive process. Put in one type of grind, wait for the complaints, "We hear you ™ ", and switch to a different type of grind. Complaining and change will never get you there, just give you something new to complain about.
At one point we had Azerite gear which could slow you down by giving you loot that while equipable, two thirds of the time was only good for a different spec. Other times it was lock outs, Other times RNG making it hard to upgrade the last couple of gear slots.
Now we have viable crafted gear and can craft into those last few never dropping gear slots. So the grind they’re moving too is a currency grind.
No solutions, just compromises. So it’s more of a “pick your poison” type of situation. But there will be some poison.
Why do some bosses take professional gaming organizations with a literal 21st man coach all raiding together in the same room over 500 tries if it’s not hard?
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Because RWF is over-produced and over-blown clown show that doesn’t represent 99% of the player base or the game itself and ‘professional gaming organizations’ need something to keep raking in those advertisers and sponsorships.
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So…you’re saying it’s hard?
Non-RWF guilds still face incredibly hard bosses take them 400-500 tries even if there are minor (then by the end of the tier major) nerfs.
Guilds that sleepwalk through keys week 1 for easy mode gearing.
And it’s been this way even before streaming progress blew up in BFA. Infact until SL, Legion had the hardest raid tier (ToS) with no hall of fame, zero recognition , and no guilds streamed anything.
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Eh, kind of, but not really?
Yea, if you look at 500 tries, sure it’s hard. But then you look at those 500 tries and see nothing was lost as a consequence really takes the difficulty out of the equation.
Having an infinite number of retries tends to water it down a bit.
1 change already reverted, going to drop 2/6 heroic again.
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I love keys as much as the next guy, but this is a big nothing burger.
So, you’re saying people can kill it prenerf week 1, while making all the strats and undergeared without all the huge nerfs?
Doesn’t sound too bad
Also to add, only 2 bosses ever in the RWF took over 500 tries
Also most of those tries are testing things out making the strats
Mythic keys should just be a side novelty you do for titles. Running gear progression through it is not a good design. Not unless delves produce the same gear.
i dont know what kind of market psychoanalysts blizzard has on their team, but i don’t think they are very good.
if they were good, they would understand that people will stay subbed and play more if the game is fun to play.
i played the most i’ve ever played in DF because i could get all my gear from the raid on heroic - i just did a quick heroic raid once a week and then i was free to play the game and enjoy it.
i geared my main very quickly played lots of mythic plus and had lots of fun… so much fun that i actually geared two other characters… thats ALOT of mythic plus…
how much will i play in war within? not even sure i’m going to play it at all.
i’m going to have to do the raid on mythic to be competitive in mythic plus and mythic raiding is not just a chore that i don’t enjoy - it’s a huge inconvenience and a HUGE time commitment…
if i commit to raiding, i am basically saying to myself that i can never leave my house on tuesday and thursday evenings - no outings with coworkers after work on tues/thurs, no meeting with friends after work on tues/thurs, no going to the gym on tues/thurs after work: these are two whole days of a seven day week where i will be glued to my computer and unable to interact with anyone else in my real life, which i doubt that i want to do.
so blizzard made these changes to get people to play more but it actually has the complete opposite effect: many people will just unsub and stop playing before the season even starts.
really? good progress! keep your voices heard and they’ll change the rest of it too, great to hear that 
First kills are only 4-6 item levels below max. The days of “undergeared” first clears died a long time ago.
Ironically the changes being proposed actually leans back in that direction.
We are also talking 16 hour days for 2-3 weeks, or more raid time than guilds will spend the entire tier.
All because it’s easy lol.
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Delves can’t give mythic track which is a shame.
mythic plus has atleast ten times the amount of mechanics that each mythic raid encounter has
also, mythic plus dungeons require full focus for 35-40 minutes at a time without stopping - this requires much more mental fortitude than a mythic raid encounter which usually never lasts more than 6-7 minutes.
it is a shame, i say put myth track gear at the end of each delve you clear - not just in the great vault
the great equalizer in clearing high end content should be actual skill, not ilvl.
let everyone compete on the same page, don’t give some people a leg up because they choose to enter the mythic raid.
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Aww man…
That’s undergeared + huge nerfs for normal people
Which are not spent doing prog
You’re coping hard, you have been inaccurate on every point you made
Change was reversed seems like excessive grinding is back off the menu.
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