Yep, that’s exactly the problem. I don’t agree with the OP entirely, because yeah, that would essentially be arguing for a single player experience where you can achieve the best gear entirely on your own. MMO’s have never worked like that. I think they’re wanting an end goal and are mistakenly taking aim at M+ as the reason why that can’t be achieved. Whereas in reality, it’s the philosophy of Blizzard. If M+ were to be removed tomorrow, a new system would be in it’s place that would be time gated RNG for gear progression. Blizzard does not want people to have BiS.
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I stopped reading there. But I totally agree with you. If you want maxed out rewards your forced to spend quite bit of hours doing it every week… It really does feel like a job that I don’t like. Same with dallies even if they only take 15-20 mins a day. I mean that’s still 2hrs a week you spend doing those.
If only there was a term for such a construction. 
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Why fix something that really isn’t broken? Mythic + is not broken, it can be sometimes dull and overdone, but it is a way to obtain better gear to progress forward. It’s not required to do next weeks story, but it helps make going through it easier. Like if you are playing the more recent God of War. You don’t have to obtain the side stuff to get better gear in that to progress in the story. It’s suggested you do, but you can do it without it.
This is an Abomb thread. He just want the thread to stay on the first page, that’s all.
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Yep m+ is not that fun just running for timer. But is the easiest solution for them to create “content” also sucks since the affix are just applicable for melee range can just just pretend there are no affixes.
Tanks in Necro week don’t exist because is not fun.
Players are not doing content that is not fun. Not even if the reward might be great, look tourgass? Their main feature of the expansion and all feedback was still negative.
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Not sure what you are looking at. Only you and a handful of the vocal minority that are always on the GD are disagreeing. That’s what you do though. Must be fun.
Again that is why my OP was highly upvoted and why I made this thread. People are upset about these issues and it’s time to fix them.
Actually disagreeing with well thought out facts and statements that I presented is making you look foolish.
Again, trying to fix the game and make it better for everyone isn’t a bad thing. Nothing that was proposed would make the game worse in any facet. We are trying to retain players and have them enjoying the content they want. Disagreeing with making the game better isn’t a good stance even for the forums.
You’re evangelizing again. I used to have a teacher who called this one the “high-horse” fallacy.
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Actually I rather complete task in game and be able to enjoy it, instead of writing on the forums what is horrifically wrong and needs to be fixed. Sigh…
Yes end goals are critical for MMORPGs. Always have been and always will be. That is why we play a progression game.
Wrong I think you should be able to get the best gear in groups. Just not M+ or Arena where these activities should be for people competing for titles and cosmetics not gear progression.
Just have a Mythic vendor with badges or valor to buy them. Still in a group. Just have a conquest vendor remove the ranks and rating to get the gear. Boom PvE and PvP fixed for most people.
PVP is ever changing because of a players reaction, sure same abilities but at any given moment a new action can be taken… fall of a cliff by lumber mill by accident etc
PVP is content because each encounter is different … if it is the same each and everytime then it is bots and that not fresh content…
Raid for the first time is content but after you learn the mechanics and fight, its just go here, stand here, shoot this and grab loot hamster wheel
It’s still as repeatable as M+ and raid. M+ is also ever changing based on route, affixes, and group utilities. If anything M+ has infinitely more variation than raids.
If I do BGs all day that isn’t content. I am enjoying an activity in game you can do. This more often than not is when you finish the required systems you have to do first. The problem is most people can’t enjoy BGs because you have to grind rep, resources, Arena, do M+, farm sockets, legendaries, conduits. Then terrible systems get in the way of PvP and enjoying BGs.
Believe me I really would love being in BGs right now, just the game is designed wrong and instead I’m here on the forums trying to fix it instead.
Something has to change otherwise participation in every aspect of the game will continue to plummet.
M+ isn’t content? I wonder why my guildies like it so much. Hmmm…
Sorry to say but M+ is exactly what some people need, especially those who care about their stats. Dungeons like these provide their class/spec what they want and they can be scaled/upgraded accordingly, without having to try week after week getting raid gear. Which more or less ends up being more trash than what M+ provided.
I’ll admit that since Shadowland’s release, its worse than it is yet it does come with some good benefits. Like as I stated, M+ giving you gear that’s relative to Raid gear (Not with 9.1’s raid now but most of the gear though). Then you got crap like horrible RNG, horrible currency being capped on top of it.
A lot of the statements made doesn’t reflect at all what you’re trying to make. Mythic + has been a thing for a LONG time now, its almost a staple and option, not a must. Your end games are Raids, PvP, and then Mythic +. You got choices here. And the kind of thing like Mythic + is its relatively easy for them to add it on top of the dungeons each time.
Overall, sure, there’s a agreeable parts where this isn’t content, its tedious, repetitive, it can result in bad things like toxicity. That should be the focus, not undoing something that greatly benefits players like me. We NEED available choices, M+ gives us the gear we LIKE. The Great Vault is also a good thing too, its bad only because IMO, it gives you the same crappy gear twice in the same week and that you can only choose one piece rather than one from each category, Raid, M+, PvP. This just needs fine tuning where players are happy with it.
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It’s good they enjoy it. However, no it’s not content. It’s an activity in game. Just would be great if the people that didn’t enjoy it weren’t funneled in there. Would be great if we removed the great vault and these systems that waste our time.
A great game should make us want to waste time in it. Not just make us feel like we wasted our time and leave.
If I do a M+ I definitely am going to hate it. Likely will make the people I do it with hate me or ruin their experience as well. It doesn’t have to be designed this way which hurts the community.
The problem with modern wow is they listened to the crowd who wants everything to be super hard so they can feel leet, and wanted to esport the game. M+ is an atrocity as far as MMORPG design goes since it flies in the fact of that principle. It’s no shock that half of the garbage in the game now came after they brought the Diablo 3 team in to work on WoW, and surprise surprise we have gearing and gameplay like Diablo 3.
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Yes I agree, It is exactly what “SOME” people need. Just don’t force all PvE players to do it. There shouldn’t be any gear progression in M+ and should ONLY be for competing in the seasons and titles or cosmetic rewards.
Same for Arena, PvP players shouldn’t be forced to do Arena which is the least popular aspect of PvP. Most PvP players don’t want to do it and would rather do BGs/WPvP etc. However they gate-keeped the best PvP gear in Arena which is wrong. Arena should only be for Titles and Glad Mount. That’s it.
These solutions are very simple where everyone can win and have something they can enjoy where they aren’t forced into these other aspects of the game. Then feel the need to pay to win/boost or quit.
Esports definitely ruined this game. So much dmg was done.
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I think it’s technically content. But that doesn’t mean it’s not boring, repetitive, and annoying.
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This is all well and good.
How is it different from any other expansion? Vanilla was grind for mats to repeat raids for gear. Vanilla had 60 levels of leveling, and 2 entire continents to explore. But that’s an anomaly. None of the others had that depth of questing as a mechanism for content.
The Raid has been the primary storytelling mechanic since day one, and those are all grinds for rinse and repeat encounters. The primary goal of LFR was to lock storytelling content behind raids, but make it accessible to everyone, and it does that just fine.
So, while M+ is not “content”, I don’t see how the modern WoW is much different from the older WoW, save for pace of release.
Said it far better than I could.
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