Please stop throwing collectors under the bus.
You just labeled multiple entire game genres as having no content.
Your argument is completely invalid.
We get that you don’t like M+ content, but that doesn’t make it not content.
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I agree OP.
I’m glad someone understands and can explain it well.
It’s why my account has been active for 3 months in the last 4 years. This is my wife’s. And I’m not sure when it ends.
According to this definition, the only content in the game is leveling and the campaign quests.
Which means you can do all of the content (as defined by Abomb) and never step foot in raid, m+, or pvp. I see this as an absolute win.
The WoW community is not a homogeneous mixture, and that’s 100% ok.
To be fair, its different when I post. See, everyone actually agrees with my opinions. So, just wanted to put that out there.
i literally just found out like a month ago that classic players hated mythic+ lol
i’m sorry guys 
Wait … you’re saying MMOs are REPETITIVE???
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
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Well then they should get some content.
Actually it’s well based on facts
Again facts don’t care about feelings. This is about fixing the game and major problems we have with Modern WoW. Not about what content I do or don’t like. The sooner we can all work together and fix the list of issues this game has, the sooner many of us can enjoy the game and perhaps get the millions of players back that have been lost.
I do hope this game can be saved.
Why does it always seem like every dude that spouts this lame line is also just spouting their feelings and opinions while labeling them as facts?
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this is the most ridiculous argument the forums have seen in a long, long time.
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First off that line is a Classic and awesome.
Second… well hopefully SL will drastically turn around and it can have content and activities for everyone some day again. Massive changes in the direction of this game need to happen, it can be done but gotta start somewhere and the time is now.
If not even more people will be gone and other MMO titles look great. New World is around the corner, I have another main MMO I been playing since 2016. Blizz can stop this spiral instead of losing customers. Where people play for longer than 1-2 months. I’d love to be subbed for longer than a few months a year myself. Just hope we can start doing changes now before it’s actually too late.
It might be if people weren’t constantly contradicting themselves by pushing their feelings as fact.
Except I don’t see him describing a single player game at all, he’s pointing out that repeating the same stuff over and over isn’t actually “More stuff” its just the same stuff disguised to look like more stuff and that’s the complaint.
And really he’s right, 100% right its not more content at all, it just the same stuff repainted to be harder. I also agree with the PVP Gear thing, rewarding the PVP gear via RBG makes sense if you don’t have a leader board and a rating system, but in a system where you have a leader board, titles and ratings IMO gear should never be the focus…
BG’s are not new content either, but people like doing them and when their character is not as good to play when they’re badly geared because the gear is gated behind poor arena participation deflating rating at the bottom end because of how the mmr system we have works, it can drive a lot of casuals away.
Casual players like it or not are why WoW is big, and without them the game is technically worse. We need them and its just a fact.
Additionally if Bliz wasn’t drunk under a desk some place on a cube crawl I feel like the game could have had a lot more content and the quality of the game could have been 10X better.
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Well, that depends. Some of us enjoy professions - crafting, making consumables, toys and mounts, etc. And that stuff requires resources. Do you mean we should just buy it off the AH rather than gather it?
Thing is, M+ is content. The real question is, is it decent content? The thing to ask the players who like it is this - would you do it if there was no gear involved as a reward? Would you find it fun to do it repeatedly if all you got was an achievement, a mount and some gold?
I don’t know the answer to that because I dont do M+ at this time. Havent done it since my guild imploded because there is no one to do it with and I wont pug.
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Exactly!
Gear needs to be accessible so then that way you can compete. Right now it isn’t even close.
BGs are my favorite type of activity in the game. They aren’t content but I enjoy them immensely. The problem is all the wasted time in convulted systems and grinds gathering resources, conduits, legendaries just to eventually start having fun in the activity I enjoy.
The problem in this game is months of chores before the fun starts where you can do what you want. Blizz needs to get people where they want to be faster and then they will stick around and get their friends to play too. This game become massive due to word of mouth now it is spiraling out of control due to word of mouth. Content creators, friends, guilds screaming to stay away at all cost! Don’t play WoW now, it’s the worst time.
It doesn’t have to be like this. Honestly I’m at least interested to see where this all goes. Most people won’t like it though. If Blizz doesn’t change soon well… I know you know what will happen.
A shame but also a reality. When was the last new BG? When was the last time Blizz even focused on some of this content that is now dead? It’s been many years. A lot of changes could be implemented immediately too that would make so many players come back and stick around.
Then the TBC launch which was rushed, riddled with bugs that still exist. They just crushed that game and killed so many servers.
Rephrase everything you’ve said in the OP which includes “is not content” to “is not my idea of content”.
Fixed.
M+ is one of three pillars in which players can push keys and demonstrate skill. WoW needs more of this, not less. It needs loads of content and other things, but it certainly does not need to remove m+. What WoW needs less of is borrowed power systems and the severe opportunity cost they entail.
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It’s not fixed though. If something is content and I don’t enjoy it. I will say I don’t enjoy that content. However M+ isn’t content, It’s an activity I don’t enjoy. Above I just said BGs aren’t content either agreeing with Khlause. It’s an activity I enjoy immensely.
There is a massive issue where there is hardly any content in the game anymore. There is no adventure! The adventure and journey was replaced with mindless daily’s and repeatable instances. It’s time to remove the hamster wheel and replace it with a road again that the player can choose how to play.
Until then this game will continue to suffer and be a shell of it’s former self. This game can get drastically better, I mean this is rock bottom so the only way is up but time to get moving!!
I didn’t say we needed less did I? I am happy people enjoy M+ just don’t force the people that don’t to participate and ruin it for everyone. It’s not hard to understand. The same is for PvP. Most PvP players don’t want to do Arena but the best gear is gate-keeped behind renown or rating. That is wrong.
What we need is a lot more content for everyone and be able to get people into the activities they want to do. Definitely a whole lot faster. Again the main problem is no completionism anymore. It’s a shame. Just a painful hamster wheel for most where there is no fun to be had so they leave.
I understand your thought process, but unfortunately this isn’t a single player game that offers a greater sense of personal completion.
Like any multiplayer game, the content is supposed to be our interactions with content you complete once and then replay to master and to be better at it than others in the same game
Yes, it is. it is literally content by definition. If you want to get into an argument of semantics, you’re going to lose. Not only because you have a bad premise, but because you’re actually getting into an argument about semantics.
At this point I’m confident you don’t understand the meaning of the word “content”.
With this I agree. Dailies are chores. It requires no skill to complete them, but they’re necessary tasks to do in order to engage in the higher-level content.
Who’s forcing you? You want the highest ilvl gear without engaging in the highest skill content. The game has literally always been this way - if you want the best gear, you have to do the hardest difficulty raid. Them extending this concept to dungeons is not an issue. you can still do your m 0’s or low keys or do normal/heroic raiding.
I’m middle-ground on this concept. I don’t compare PvP to PvE. In my opinion, PvP should be equalized, so yes, I’m in favor of the best ilvl gear not being gated behind rating, because players are working against each other. I’m perfectly fine with the higher tiers simply being aesthetic, and on that note i think the rating requirements for elite gear are far too low.
That said, PvE is different. You don’t deserve to have the gear to down a mythic raid boss if all you do is m0’s. Sorry, but that’s how it’s always been. Gear in PvE is rightfully a progression system. by whichever method you choose to engage in it is up to you, but you’re going to have to develop and implement a semblance of skill to do so.
The hamster wheel isn’t m+. It’s torghast, it’s dailies, it’s renown, it’s gold farming and legendaries. M+ is an engaging process by which people demonstrate skill that rewards better gear and achievements… That isn’t a hamster wheel. It’s fun for a lot of players, and it’s the epitome of mmorg gameplay.
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What does this have to do with single player? I never said I wanted to do all the content alone. I expect to do content in groups because it’s an MMO. I really don’t understand why you think I want to play alone. You can complete content with people and that is why we have guilds and LFG.
I just want actual content to complete with people. It would be fun. Then I can move onto the next thing or the activities I really enjoy in game like BGs and WPvP etc. Heck I am in a PvP guild but it’s depressing because everyone is bummed about the chores in the way of doing PvP. It’s a problem. So most leave and this doesn’t have to happen.
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