As long as we remove gear from world content and raids as well then sure.
Everyone “wins” now.
“If” players really enjoyed world content and raids they wouldn’t need gear as an incentive right?
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challenge mode was that and it was dead content (which is why m+ took it’s place) because when your reward is a title or a mount it’s a one and done forever.
m+ has gear drops and the vault which is a carrot on the stick for people
that’s cool OP, I’m gonna keep doing M+ though cause its fun in my eyes.
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Except for all the people who actually like getting rewards that are useful and not cosmetic from the content they enjoy.
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What content do you suggest blizzard make then? Are you looking at a new dungeon every month? More world quests?
How would you get gear if not through M+? Just raid, pvp and world quests?
Impossible to get 20 for mythic at the drop of a hat, not everyone enjoys pvp and world quest can suck it honestly.
I am by your definiton “done” with M+ i have aquired every upgrade available from M+ yet i still do them, sure i get bored of it but there is legit nothing else other than raid I am interested in. Mindless grinding of world quests and solo content is not my definiton of fun.
What do you suggest the players that actually enjoy M+?
If it wasn’t for M+ dungeons my entire guild would of unsubbed ages ago.
Also weekly chest is literally free gear. Why delete something you don’t like? Just don’t do it?
What would be your ideal way for blizzard to distribute high end gear then?
Not sure why you quoted me there, since neither the above, nor anything that followed was a response to what I said. Almost felt like a non sequitur. Did I suggest somewhere that something be removed?
Yea but that is content and M+ isn’t content. 
There is no Raid + if there was there should be no gear in there. We are trying to have rewards for doing content. We also need a lot more content, not repetitive activities. Then activities such as M+ or Arena if people want to compete in them for Titles, Mounts and Cosmetics they can go at it.
I know you just like to say the opposite and don’t really make any logical points but come on. Try to follow logical thoughts here.
I’m still waiting for you to make a logical thought , you’re spare parts bud.
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Why do we have 4 difficulties of the same raid providing 4 different item levels of the same gear?
Maybe 3 of those should be removed because they “aren’t content?”
Many a thread has been made here suggesting exactly that.
For the love of god NOOOOOO! This is not a dungeon game, holy cow.
I mean we are at over 400 replies in this thread almost everything you are asking has been covered above. So we get repeat answers. I’ll at least answer this one yet again but maybe for visibility.
There should be vendors and fluidity between the vendors for PvP and PvE. The weekly vault would be removed as it is one of the most toxic chores put into the game that causes player subs to be shorter 1-2 months and for players to not want to come back.
We have Conquest and you go to the PvP vendor and you buy the gear, simple. No ranks, no rating required. Just good ole fashioned gear. You know like when the game was good.
We have a Valor vendor just like we used too. You get valor from world quest and mythic and go to the vendor and you know just buy the gear. Also Mythic 0 would just reward gear again, no ranks. Just gear like they used too.
There would be a badge vendor where Raiders could go and you know… just spend badges and buy Tier sets and gear they want.
Gearing doesn’t have to be super convoluted, have ranks, be gate-keeped or time-gated behind rating. It feels bad and always will feel bad for the majority of the community which is why it used to not be like that. The best iterations of gearing in this game was a very simple process. Not an impossible RNG one that makes people just uninstall.
That’s you! Not the community. Myself, my friends and a lot of players that left, want to do Mythic 0 check out the new dungeons for the expansion. Target some gear, get valor and go to a vendor and buy the items I want and be FINISHED with dungeons. I don’t want to do them again or over and over in M+ and this thread clearly outlines that M+ isn’t an activity that we want to do.
Again if you enjoy M+ and like to challenge yourself in there go for it but it’s for Titles, Mounts and Cosmetics. No need to make M+ super toxic for the community though and force people that don’t want to be in there ruining the experience for everyone. M+ is a horrific chore for a lot of people. It doesn’t have to be like that.
I never want to do another M+ again. That would be awesome!! Most of the community is just over them.
I have 0 interest in pvp because its literally pay to win so im not concerned with that portion of the game. I agree this may be the solution to the current p2w system.
What do you suggest people that actually like doing dungeons do then?
Just do them 100 times at the exact same difficulty?
I’ve played tbc and there was literally nothing I wanted to do after a month. Full cleared all raids did all dungeons on the hardest difficulties multiple times farmes every piece of gear needed from dungeons and badge vendors. There was just nothing left to do. I had literally the “bis loot” with no content to challenge myself with, wait a week for raid or do that heroic dungeon again on the exact same difficulty.
Now im actively doing dungeons for literally no gear just for fun can you believe it?
Why destroy other peoples fun if you dont like something. There is nothing i want to do if M+ was removed, I’d probably uninstall cause I’m not paying a sub to log in twice a week for raid.
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You clearly are not following the thread or discussion. Perhaps reading it through again would help you understand. Since you like doing things over and over again, you shouldn’t mind.
I mean so is PvE but okay.
That they can keep doing them and the people that don’t like doing them repeatedly for the entire expansion can be finished with them and actually enjoy the game.
If you like M+ you can keep doing them, the bonus is it won’t be as toxic because it won’t have a ton of players in there that don’t want to be there trying to get a vault item. You see we are fixing the toxic part of M+ too so YOU can enjoy it.
Everyone wins.
After you get BiS gear that is when the game starts. You can now do whatever you want whether that is more content or an activity. You can now make Alts and complete and finish builds on them too. The game opens up and you feel rewarded when you complete it.
Literally everyone’s fun would be enhanced. I am not sure how you aren’t following. M+ wouldn’t go anywhere. It just would be a better place to compete in after these changes for you. Then you can enjoy every M+ season and get those Titles, mounts and cosmetics.
Not sure how this can be worded differently for you to understand. No one is having their fun destroyed. Everyone is having their fun enhanced. Win/Win
I agree with this, but not sure what more they can do.
Probably need to break off and start a new private company and develop an mmo that isn’t tied to the stock market.
The only way to really fix it is to funnel more resources into original content creation. Despite the bazillions they make, this seems to be the limit of their capacity.
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Difference is you actually need skill to consistently participate at the highest level. I can confidently say none of my raid members were boosted and no amount of tokens/boosting or whatever will change end game raid.
You cant get into the mythic raiding team without skills which ultimately you cant buy.
In pvp you get boosted to your desired level you get your reward and never play again. Cause youll just get farmed back down to your real skill level.
Isn’t this where the game ends for someone that strictly plays the game dungeon and raid? You literally have no more room for gear/power progression of your character anymore.
By more content do you mean doing activities such as dailies/rep farm? Cause in tbc there wasn’t anymore content that was remotely challenging once you were “bis gear” was just the same old dailie repeatable quests.
I felt rewarded when i did it the first time, i definately do not want to do the exact same content on a different character.
With M+ i feel rewarded every time i push a higher key level.
I mean we would likely have a gamers game then. They would just actually try to produce something that is a quality product.
They can start by reversing all the bad changes that really took off in BFA/SL. Not saying Legion was great either as that had massive problems too. However the Devs got to change and start somewhere if they want anything close to an MMO left.
Not just original but CORE content and game design that stays in the game. Each expansion should built on CORE design of the last. No new convoluted systems that are broken the whole expansion to only be somewhat functional by the end to only be ripped out again.
That is parasitic design that is just an insult to the players. It has to stop.
I don’t get how having mythic 0 dropping gear that should be coming out of high m plus would be a good thing. Doing harder content gets you access to better gear. That’s how it should be. Should we go back to WQ dropping heroic ilvl gear making the raid useless? Doesn’t it feel better to have accomplished something difficult to earn that gear? The gear won’t feel rewarding when you are doing brain dead easy content to get it
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In TBC it was literally grind easy dungeons until you have all the loot and badges from them and then raid log. Once you had the bis gear (which you farmed through doing easy dungeons) there was no content that was harder to use that gear on until the next patch/xpac so youd have 8-12 months of just raid logging.
People want time invested = bis gear and not hardest content = best loot.
I see the systems and borrowed power as a different issue. It IS an issue, but different from what most would consider original content.
Keys definitely extend the life of the dungeons to a degree, but it’s not original content either.
Tazavesh would be considered this. Doesn’t seem very popular tho.
What people? I was causal from MOP until this expansion. With the lockdown I could spend more time on the game and wanted to improve. I decided to work on that and it was the best time I have ever had in wow. I would much rather see myself become a better player and earning my loot then doing a Mists 0 20 times and getting all bis gear. Difficulty should absolutely be tied into the rewards, as has always been the case with wow.