Gotta design for the majority of who’s left. Blizz is making the game they want to make. Luckily there’s other options out there for folks who don’t vibe with it so everyone* wins.
*Except for the ones that just stick around to post how much they hate everything
Yea but players don’t like that game. We keep telling them but they are detached from the player base. Not even trying to be rude but the Devs have to change their thinking and vision for what the game should look like and soon. This is the worst state WoW has ever been in.
I don’t think everyone wins if this game dies and is a hollow shell of a once good game. The Devs lose because they lose their job as the game metrics plummet as they have in 9.1. So what would be healthy is if we start fixing the game to stop the remaining players from leaving and actually bring back the players that left.
It won’t be easy as the Devs have a long uphill battle of regaining the players trust.
A lot of them do like it.
If they’re passionate about this being the game they want to make, then no, they don’t. Doesn’t mean it’ll be a success, but that’s their choice to make. It’s ok if it’s not a game that everyone loves, just like it’s ok for hot dog carts not to sell pizza.
Bringing back players that left is harder than keeping what they have now. Not everyone left because of what you think is bad design, and there’s no guarantee the ones who did would return anyway.
Would not worry about it too much. Future expacs are removing dungeons, raids and M+ for Torghast only style content for solo and groups.
The players voted loud and clear around this.
This is the most wrong statement of the week. 
The Devs aren’t hired to see out their passion, they are hired to make Activision money! That is their job!! To create a successful game that makes the Investors happy and the stock price go up. The Devs don’t have a choice if the game is losing popularity they have to change or lose their job. Their job performance is literally based on what we think.
This game is a business that has real business consequences. This isn’t Art class where you can just make what you want. This game has a business model it has to follow and right now SL is failing for a multitude of reasons. So… let start with working together to actually fix the game.
We currently don’t have enough players in the game though. It’s literally way below what Activision is happy with. Especially in terms of making money.
why would you want to run a dungeon once and be permanently done with it? You’re just gonna end up sitting in town all day like before M+ existed waiting for tuesday reset.
This new mentality of not wanting to actually play games is the weirdest thing to me, also known as ‘‘respecting your time’’.
If I have to pay to receive a temporary 30 days of game time, it better damn well be able to take all 30 days if I decide that I want it to otherwise go f2p so I can hop in and out at will and not spend a nickel
It can be done a couple times like I said with friends helping them etc. I want to be done with it so I can move onto other content or activities. If I am never done with dungeons when do I get to play the game? The Devs got to do a better job of getting people into the content and activities they want to do, not funneled into activities they don’t want to do.
Definitely am not though. I have never logged in and said I can’t wait to do a dungeon. I don’t play this game to do dungeons. They are a small part of the game, or at least they are supposed to be. They are there to compliment the game and it’s story not be all of it.
If you like repeat content cool, if you like the daily grind, have at it. If you enjoy M+ also go for it. However I rather see the game be about a journey again instead of a repetitive chore. aka the hamster wheel.
Wow has been a hamster wheel as you call it for a long time. You either spammed heroic dungeons for badges and raided as early as bc same for wotlk and so on.
Whatever you mean by ‘‘journey’’ is long gone and it pretty much can’t come back. Take a look at classic wow and see what the players made of the ‘‘journey’’. It’s all mages boosting you through sm cause people want the ‘‘journey’’ to be over with asap. Blizzard didn’t make them do that.
Because it’s cheap. Ask yourself what is cheaper. Content that forces players to do something you had to design once a hundred times per character or something they do once per character? Which stretches out the development dollar further and forces engagement for engagement’s sake?
That’s what’s killing this game. It’s been decided MMORPGs are too expensive to develop anymore at Activision-Blizzard. Other companies feel otherwise but at Activision they’re looking at how they can Call-of-Duty-ify this game up to be more lobby-like, cheaper, less content that has to be developed, more repetition of the same among hyper-competitive individuals (which promotes incredible toxicity, literally the evil baby of the worst toxic PvPers and the most elitist raiders of the old WoW all while admonishing us as a community for being too toxic).
So I agree with your post completely. I agree that M+ should be titles and cosmetics like it was when it was just challenge mode back in MoP.
But the devs don’t. The devs have decided if you don’t like this mode of gameplay you are a scrub and they want to either fix you into a hyper-competitive sword and sorcery COD-player type person, drive you out of their game, or milk you as a whale for tokens that you buy to pay others to run you through this content. It fits perfectly both the corporate drive to maximize profits while minimizing expenditures and effort as well as the dev’s elitist attitudes “get gud” as the head of the development team said in an interview.
And this isn’t even touching on how toxic M+ has been as something the devs balance the game around. AOE caps weren’t a thing until M+ when they decided to nerf everyone in every form of content just to prevent people using it as a playstyle in their timed modes. Another thing would be things like the engineering glider, you used to be able to use it in instances including raids which was fun, now you can’t because people were using it to cheese the mechanics in M+ and the game must be balanced entirely around that.
It is brilliant design for something like Diablo… not WoW. In WoW you want to move through and eventually graduate something. Not keep doing the same content week in and week out for two years.
Quite honestly; mythic+ is the best CONTENT that has been introduced since BC. You say you want to do heroic dungeons a few times then never do them again. That is great and you can still do that. You can follow the old model of wow and just do the raid every week. Your progress will be slow because you are not taking advantage of every aspect… but you will gradually complete your desired outcome. You do not NEED to do mythic+… back in tbc you could progress by just doing raid with pre raid bis from dungeons and rep but if you wanted the best advantage you needed to get arena rating so that you could get weapons and such but it wasnt needed just like mythic+. Once the raid was completed you legit sat in ironforge/ dun morough if you were alliance and did absolutely nothing…what great content. If you cant do the content dont say it isn’t content.
And yet, Activision could have made changes to the team years ago if they disagreed with the direction.
Well I guess we’ll see which crowd they think can change that. For me at least, if they went your direction, it wouldn’t be worth buying the expansion for 3 weeks. 
WoW has been Dungeons, Raids and PvP since Vanilla. And it is still like this today. There are mini-games but they are not the core game. What you want is Blizz to focus on mini-games. Nope. It will always be Dungeons, Raids and PvP. There are mini-games but they are so trivial… that’s why many get bored when their main game is not Dungeons, Raid and PvP. You want ilevel 252 loot from soloing? Sorry, it wont happen. You are on a wrong game. Dont expect next patch, next series of expansions would turn into that. It would always be Dungeons, Raid and PvP… has been like this for 16 years.
Again, you are on a wrong game. MMO is a game of grind. And WoW is an MMO. Even FF14 is an MMO… a game of grind. Your game that you want is not this one. And sorry, WoW wont become what you want. People here who are solid are still having fun with competitive gameplay. This is not a trivial game. We strive to get BiS from a very hard content. We dont get BiS from trivial content. YOu dream of having 5 alts wearing BiS before you start their journey? This is not that game.
That is going to happen now that the game has flopped erasing 5 years of growth dating back to the content drought of WoD. Stock down 18% last 6 months too. More than just Jay Allen will be fired in the next few months.
This is true. It’s the true reward in an MMO which is completion.
I just miss the days of there being a limited number of useful drops from a dungeon. Not this endless “there’s a higher i-level item in another castle! And it looks exactly like this one!” repetitiveness. There came a point where you were “done” with a dungeon, and even then, it was still past the point where you were burnt out on it.
I don’t know how people can do M+ these days. It got stale in Legion for me.
I don’t know how people can’t just not do stuff if they don’t want, and insist it gets removed from everyone instead.
If you don’t like mythic+ then don’t do it.
If you don’t like raiding then don’t do it.
If you don’t like PvP then don’t do it.
If you have 0 self control and “must” do all content possible to be 100% optimal in a video game so you want content removed so you feel better about yourself, please find something else to do.
Its a case of wanting to do everything possible to be at your best, and wanting the options to be extremely limited so doing everything possible is really easy and quick to do.
^^ Precisely, this.
And the thought process behind it is absolutely ridiculous. For example, a lot of players lack the skill for high level Mythic plus. But instead of coming to terms with their shortfalls, they’d much rather create an entire thread rationalizing how M+ isn’t even content and it’s somehow the dev’s fault for adding this toxic activity into the game.
It’s mind-boggling the mental gymnastics people will go through in order to avoid coming to terms with their lack of skill / effort.
This was mentioned many times. That isn’t an option because M+ is where the gear progression is and also we have the Toxic weekly chest chores. These systems in game don’t have to be so toxic.
How about they just make M+ competitive seasons that doesn’t reward gear but Titles, Mounts and Cosmetics. Then “IF” you really enjoy the activity of M+ you will compete in it.
The same goes for Arena, there definitely shouldn’t be any better gear for Arena. The best PvP gear should come before Arena and then people who want to compete in Arena can.
This was only said multiple times. Everyone wins and you greatly reduce toxicity in these environments.
So raids and pvp should also follow this? Your saying the only actual content is the quests?
You do realise that any of the current end game content is only about titles/transmog because as soon as the season ends - none of the gear matters.
So basically challenge modes?
Why does it matter?
One 15 key a week is super fast and easy.
I do 4 with friends on the weekend and it’s drunken hilarity.
The game has 3 major ways to gear.
Raid.
Rated pvp.
M+
M+ is the easiest but most time consuming.
You can only get one random 252 peice a week. It is 100% not mandatory if you don’t high end raid.
Removing M+ Gearing is beyond idiotic.
Funny thing is the FF14 community has been begging devs for m+ for 2 expansions now.