M+ is NOT content! The problem with modern WoW

Community General Discussion
481

There are things I do not like about shadowlands, but overall yes, I still like and enjoy the game. This isn’t “copium” or “being in denial” like everyone keeps buzzing around. The core game play still appeals to me; it’s the systems like conduit energy, covenants, and really bad grinds like korthia and torghast that I am not enjoying. OP’s complaint about M+ doesn’t resonate with me. Raiding and for the most part m+ are fine, thriving even. I can fill a +20 key in seconds still, even on explosive week it took me seconds.

It seems the area that is having the largest struggle is the casual side of things. My alt sat in queue for almost 10 minutes just trying to fill for a 15, and it’s a tank- the casual side is definitely hurting. The top end? absolutely not - some of my world 100 raider friends even lost the top 100 guilds race because so many guilds continue to push at the top.

482

m+ is content. it’s game+

it shouldnt be THE content but its def. content.

483

Have you ever considered you can set your own “completion” goals?

You know like maybe your completion goal is to KSM or maybe just to complete all of the dungeons at +10

Just some ideas for your own personal completions

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484

Why would I be scared to leave? If I wanted to I would.

I enjoy WoW right now. I enjoy SL. There are some things I’d like to see done differently but I enjoy the game thoroughly

485

Thinking out loud isn’t sad that over 16 years a company can’t balance stuff? Raid/doungeons/pvp worse classes skills.

Whomever got that job I envy them job security at the max with zero repercussions

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486

I have them like anyone else but it’s near impossible to achieve them anymore in modern WoW which is the problem. It’s that hamster wheel getting in the way again. Hence this thread.

My goal would be to get BiS completing a build. I feel rewarded when that happens and that is when the game and fun starts. Then I have an option, tinker and theorycraft another build, make an Alt and complete a build there. Anything is possible. However completing builds now…well that isn’t possible. Playing Alts definitely isn’t possible because my main is NEVER COMPLETE!

Gearing up in this game should really be a 2-3 week deal, I mean BiS top to bottom sockets, trinkets everything. When people finish a character they can finally play the game. All the chores are out of the way. You are supposed to go on a journey and finish then create a new journey afterwards. Not try to do chores every week for the Great Vault which sucks the life and soul out of this game.

The problem again is modern WoW is a hamster wheel where they never want you to finish or complete anything for some reason. When the reality is when you complete something it’s why we play and how we can truly experience the game and create a magical experience playing how we want with our time logged in.

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487

This is probably one of the worst takes. If i hate pet battles is it not content too? Any MMO for the most part is doing repeatable activity with a new system/skin/twist on it, is that not content? By definition, games like fortnite, league, apex or valorant have no content either.

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I’m just curious when this mythical 2-3 weeks to deck a character in full BiS existed.

Having played classic and now TBC classic as a memory refresh it sure wasn’t there.

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489

This honestly sounds like a “you” problem and not a problem with M+. As many others have posted, the definition of content is much more broad-based than the narrow definition you have.

I would also add: your goal of obtaining BiS gear is not something that should be completed in 2-3 weeks. That would indicate Mythic raiding - arguably the most difficult content in the game today - is easily completed AND spam farmable by the average player in 2-3 weeks. That’s completely asinine.

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490

MMOs have two types of content:

  • Unique
  • Repeatable

The former gets players interested and the latter keeps them playing. Mythic+ is crucial to the game as one of the pillars of WoW in endgame

491

I feel like M+ has single-handedly led to the demise of queueable content. It’s great content for people who want to push challenges outside of raid, certainly, but it’s skewed the reward structure heavily away from the player that enjoyed queueable content.

This feeling has only been emphasized by the introduction of valor points. Once upon a time, Valor points served two purposes. For the progression player it was supplemental gearing, and for the casual player it was a path of progression at their own pace.

When I was campaigning for the return of valor in early Shadowlands, it was a return of those systems. A universal PVE currency to buy gear and/or upgrade it. Instead they introduced a system that only benefits manually-created group content pushers in an expansion that already struggled with character growth in all forms of PVE content.

9.1 introduced Korthia with the armaments system and research to upgrade it. This felt great. But it did nothing to improve the rest of the content for the casual player. So the game feels small. We have dungeons and LFR, but practically no reason to run them.

If 9.1 introduced a system where we could choose to do LFR, LFG, or world content and all avenues felt like they went toward the same goal, I think it would’ve felt better.

I have no problem with higher levels of difficulty providing more rewards. But this entire design just feels bad and disorganized.

In an ideal 9.1 world I could run a heroic dungeon or LFR and work toward building up my armament gear, or I could run world content and work toward building up my LFR/LFG gear, for example.

But right now everything is segregated poorly, unbalanced, mostly unrewarding, and if it doesn’t directly benefit people who push organized challenging content it’s even worse off than it is for those that do, which isn’t in a great place either.

I believe M+ could coexist well with the rest of the game, if they put some honest effort into revamping their reward structure to include most of the game. Putting stuff like Soul ash exclusively in Torghast is stupid for example.

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492

Siege of Orgrimmar is content. Literally everything is content.

Although I would support a division of gear meaning gear earned from M+ has a bonus in M+, gear from raiding has a bonus in raids, and PvP gear has a bonus in Battlegrounds.

493

No it’s a game design problem. M+ while I get some people like it. A massive amount of people don’t. So stop designing the game around M+ please and thanks. Also the great vault is a hamster wheel problem that hurts everyone. Again bad design.

I don’t know about many, like 20 is more like it. More people will agree with the idea of this thread though. That dailys and M+ aren’t content. Nor should the bulk of our time be doing them or forced into doing them as chores instead of actual good game design.

It shouldn’t be much longer then that. What if we have 5 characters? How long should that take? We want to get people playing the game not stuck in chore mode forever not attaining the gear to finish a character.

494

The game is not designed around Mythic+.

Dungeons are designed around Mythic+.

495

I agree and this is why M+ has become one of the most Toxic environments of the game.

Exactly, this is needed. You have a lot of great points in your post.

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496

Shadowlands is the first expansion I have ever done more then WQ. With the lockdown happening when it launched I was able to put more time into the game. M+ is by far my favourite thing in this game.

Watching myself struggling in a 8 but now being able to time +17 with guildies has given me a massive feeling of accomplishment. It has made me become a much better player.

The one reason I can’t seem to stay in FFXIV is because their replayable dungeon content is down right awful easy. Only AOEing and not worrying about kick priorities or hard cc is straight up boring.

Mythic plus is the best feature of any MMO IMO and I would unsub if the started messing with it. It’s the main thing me and my guild do for fun each week.

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497

Maybe set realistic goals for yourself?

498

Blizz seems to disagree with your idea that more people dislike it, so they design for the majority.

You seem to be the only one claiming you can’t start playing the game till you’re full bis.

499

Stuff to do in game is content…the login screen would be noncontent…flight paths are not content.
Stuff that required interaction and progression…is content.

It may not be what you like. But its content none the less.

500

The majority of players left though due to bad design.

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