That’s funny raids have season’s to. The try to force you to raid for dom gear quite funny. It’s funny alot of mythic raiders clear mythic and dont even have a 100 io.
doing something just to do it isnt relevant. Its just time consuming.
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Name 5 players
lol
So thia is rastlin right?
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So is killing raid bosses and pvp’n just time wasters. Completely irrelevant considering half the raid bosses dont even have loot for you at times. Oh that’s why alot people pug and only join certain bosses.
god I hope not
I dont man it sure seems like a def possibility that dude def loved to boost about his likes
Another detached system. Which they promised no more systems. Dom gear should drop every week from Torghast just like Corruption dropped from 5 mask visions. It’s incredible that SL is significantly worse than BFA in regards to their systems and fluidity between them.
It’s because SL isn’t an MMO anymore and has become so compartmentalized it’s just World of Instance Craft. This is why the player base has the biggest loses in history.
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I think that dungeons are a staple part of MMO’s (which you clearly don’t agree with)… if you know MMO history, they’ve always been a core feature of these types of games. So, seeing you (a classic player) kind of dismiss the other poster, because you think they’re just a “small part” of wow, is a bit surprising and kind of hurts your argument…
The way i look at it - I think MDI tournaments and meta-gaming with mythic+ (thx to systems like covenants and such) does create a bit of a toxic or tryhard culture for dungeon running…if mythic+ had simple rating and no leader board/ladder , I don’t think the atmosphere would be as polluted with that kind of stuff. it would probably go in a more casual direction honestly, like challenge modes were…but replay ability would be dead.
I think because dungeons are a core part of an mmo, they had no business making an e-sport out of it. When they took mythic+ in that direction, I think it became less accessible to casual dungeon runners (many of whom switched to classic from what I understand).
I see players suggest multiple times that instead of trying to take away a popular activity that’s enjoyed by thousands worldwide, why not come up with ideas for another end game activity? It’s always dismissed. I’m sure if there was a 4th end-game activity that you and thousands of other players loved participating in weekly - you wouldn’t be complaining about your loot in the great vault. Unless you’re just a complainer that hates RNG, which sorry to say, have fun with that if that’s the case.
Keystone Dungeon running has evolved as it should - and should continue to do so. It’s a speed running activity, and if you don’t like, don’t play it. it is in no way mandatory. nor is it toxic on its own - i think there’s a lot of variables that contribute to that opinion honestly that many posters are just not willing to acknowledge, just cuz they hate the game.
First off I agree there should be dungeons however as said they are meant to be completed and finished. They are a part and feature of an MMO but are in no way supposed to be the MAIN IN GAME TIME of it. Dungeons and Raids are there to compliment the game and bring it’s story and lore to life.
In Classic though you can quickly finish doing dungeons and then you are done with them. You actually don’t even have to do all of them. There isn’t some repeat reason in Classic that forces you to keep doing them for months. You target the gear you want get it finished. You can be finished with Dungeons in Classic in literally 2 weeks. Which isn’t true in SL where you are expected to do them for years creating the hamster wheel.
You are missing a huge point though. People have to do M+ and a lot hate them. We don’t want to learn the fights, we don’t care about the affixes but we do care about the gear. So this is why people join M+ and just leave or don’t carry their weight because they literally just don’t want to be there.
This creates a toxic environment because it’s like having a Class where the students are forced to take it but instead rather goof off while they fail. It drags the class down. Just like M+ is dragged down by people that hate it but have to do it.
I don’t know about you but most people don’t put effort into something they hate so forcing us to do M+ is just bad design and overall is poorly designed that hurts the overall community.
There shouldn’t be any gear rewards in there. Then you won’t get players that don’t want to be in there polluting it. You can have a bunch of people that just want to compete in the M+ season instead.
This is the problem. I never wanted to take away M+ but it doesn’t suit the millions of players that want to play this game. As you say 1,000s that enjoy it but there are millions that play WoW and they are forced into M+.
I already said how we fix M+ and Arena. We remove the gear rewards and they are for competition only for Unique Mounts, Cosmetics and Titles.
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well look at the leaderboards right now on raider io, you tell me how many active players mythic+ has. it’s a very popular activity, and honestly, i’d say many of them are content. i know it’s saved the game for a LOT of casual/returning players that are working full time jobs now.
it’s not mandatory, why do you keep saying it is? like from what you described, it sounds like you’re not a fan of dungeons…well guess what? I like running them over and over…affixes keep them different from week to week, and keep them interesting to me.
getting rid of gear rewards from dungeons is not a good idea, i can’t believe you think it is lol but different flavors for different people i guess 
This is a gear based game, I don’t think that has to be explained. Despite people hating M+ they still are going to go in there because they need the gear. If M+ didn’t reward gear almost everyone wouldn’t do it. The only reason I will suffer through M+ is for the gear just like other people. So if we are suffering and don’t want to be in there that isn’t going to make your experience good since you want to be in there.
I want to complete content and gear up my character and be finished with a build. Then make perhaps a new build and gear that. Then perhaps make an Alt and gear that. Quickly do each mind you.
Which is good, I’m glad you like them. Run them till you are blue in the face, just don’t expect us to be happy about the current state of WoW when it’s terrible for us. When we don’t want to do M+ but are forced in there as a weekly chore where you are never done and on a hamster wheel instead of a wonderful journey.
Never said that. You get gear from Mythic 0 and from the Valor vendor. M+ should be a choice if you want to compete. Same for PvP and Arena. BiS gear should come from PvP quest and BGs where the majority of it’s PvP player base actually is.
yeah you don’t like shadowlands very much. lol i’d just wait for the next expansion if i were you
Yea most of the playerbase doesn’t like SL very much, that is why they left. This is a thread because I care and the game doesn’t have to be this bad. I really want to fix it. BFA wasn’t a good expansion but was a lot better than SL and gearing was far better too.
I don’t think there will be another expansion. Especially after this one. If they can’t even put out a product that is remotely close to finished and is actually good to play. They should just call it.
I’m sorry but waiting till 9.3 for Shadowlands convoluted terrible systems to fixed and the game to feel complete isn’t going to work anymore. People experienced that in BFA and are tired. SL is doing really poorly because you have to understand just how tired the player base is from the recent years of neglect.
I hope Blizz changes, I’m rooting for them but also realize maybe losing another 50% of it’s players are needed before they realize it.
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By this logic even one off quests are not content as I can do them on one character, delete that character afterwards and repeat them on a new character. I am doing the same content over and over again.
That is incorrect. You did them and completed them, so now you are done. Content is something that has an end destination, you progress through it then you are finished with it. Once it is done then it is NOT content anymore. If you repeat Quest or something you have already done it is an ACTIVITY. Many of us don’t enjoy the focus on the activity of M+ or Daily Quest. We rather have a journey again instead of being on a hamster wheel.
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Of course, that’s why they designed it that way.
If you have to infinitely spam M+ forever to get the gear you need/want, your sub will stay rolling. If you let people actually accomplish and complete something and feel rewarded, then they might have a good experience but they’ll also play less once they’re done. And Acti Blizz can’t have that.
Of course, we’ve seen that forcing players to do things actually just drives your players away. So it’s having the opposite effect of what they want. But who cares about reality…
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I disagree here. They will stay subbed for longer because they enjoy the game. Then their friends might start playing because they are having fun. There is more for them too do because they can complete content and enjoy the game instead of infinite spam activities. For me when I get BiS gear that is when the game and journey really begins.
On the flip side people leaving after 1-2 months because chores aren’t fun isn’t going to deliver the best time metric. Sure maybe for that 1 month but then they are gone and might never come back. A problem that SL has suffered many people had their breaking point and are finished with this expansion.
Correct. You get more flies with honey then… 
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Does anyone like SL? I mean serious question. I just think the players that are left are holding onto a bad relationship and actually don’t enjoy it. They want to leave but are scared.