M+ is NOT content! The problem with modern WoW

Community General Discussion
441

Agreed. Causes issues with catch up too. Miss out on months of vault gear? Enjoy being permenantly behind. Dumb game design that discouraged new or returning players from ever playing this game.

I don’t necessarily agree with this. I think m+ is decently enjoyable and counts as content. Kinda like raids and PvP seasons.

The problem is when they expect you to do the exact same dungeons all expansion long. You don’t make people raid the same raid all expansion. They need to come out with 5 dungeons per raid tier. Put a little less work into the art and just pump more out.

Also make sure stuff comes out in 6 month cycles. If content is being released slower than that regardless of what’s going on the game will suffer.

442

Weekly chest is the most toxic system in the game currently that keeps you on the hamster wheel. It’s extremely unenjoyable.

I said above different times that season falls under activities. The problem with M+ and now Arena with rating required for ranking is that now they are forced activities. So now you are on a hamster wheel again and doing parts of the game you shouldn’t have to and never to get to where you want to be when you log in.

M+ and Arena should just be skippable activities, if you enjoy them knock yourself out and compete in them for titles, mounts and that sort of thing all day. Just remove the gear reward and the evil of tying it to the Vault.

You should be able to complete the content like dungeons and be finished with them then move onto new content or finally the activities you want to do on a daily basis.

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443

The great vault was one of the best ideas they’ve added to the game. I hope you guys are joking lol

444

This posters entire rant takes the cake really lol. To sum it up, this person shouldnt be playing an MMO, and anything he/she doesnt like to do is not content. Wooow…just when I thought people couldnt get any more dense or self-serving…

445

My face hurts from cringing. The Great Vault just took the terrible idea of the weekly chest from BFA and doubled down on it. This RNG weekly loot system is so toxic. Just have vendors.

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446

uh i get way more upgrades compared to when I was running m+ in BfA

447

Comparing Bad to Bad isn’t Good. There shouldn’t be any chest system. It’s super toxic. Just have a valor vendor and targeted gear.

448

well of course a system that has no rng is going to feel better than one with rng.

:roll_eyes:

btw, I think this current vault system is great, i never said or implied it was bad. you can have lots of choices if you decide to play hardcore one week.

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449

The real problem is that the game is way behind on the outside of the instance play content, you might want to sit in a dungeon 24/7 on a mmorpg but many do not.

450

While Abom is definitely running on a different version of reality to everyone else, that’s not quite what content means in the context of content creators.

Asmon isn’t a content creator through the act of playing the game (that makes him a content consumer like the rest of us). He is a content creator through the act of showing the game. Your first sentence is the more accurate one.
He produces video content in the form of his stream and his youtube videos. He could be a WOW content creator without ever playing the game. He could simply comment on it and it would count because the creation of the video content is what is meant in this case.

The content is what is consumed (for Asmon, his videos and streams), in the main topic we’re in, it’s the game and its environments and activities, of which M+ is one.

451

I think the root problem isn’t that M+ is bad, or that it is or isn’t content (it is).

I also don’t think the root problem is that there isn’t content to do or that raid, m+, etc is 90% of the content.

The problem is the content and storytelling is bad. If you took all the quests, areas, npcs, etc from WoW and submersed the player into a story and those NPC, learning about them, giving them a background, etc it would all feel so much better.

You also have all these towns and areas where it’s NPCs placed around standing, and the world doesn’t look or feel alive. If you look at Red Dead Redemption 2, you feel like the world you’re in is alive. NPC’s have jobs, lives, personalities, etc - they even change the world some over time. It’s not like they would even need a bunch of unique NPCs at every “town” in the zones, just do a few and make them really interesting and important to the player. Let the rest be filler, that are off doing things like preparing for war against the Jailer.

Shadowlands has given players a campaign, four covenant campaigns, a shards of domination campaign, and it’s easy to feel disconnected and well, nothing towards characters, even as prominent as the Primus. I think one of the major mistakes still was limiting players to one covenant, where players could have immersed themselves in all 4 campaigns and then selected a covenant talent that changed colors based on what covenant they aligned with, letting alts skip this of course, and then really helping a player feel something about each one. Side note - IMO they missed an immense opportunity for soulbinds and conduits to have been a skill tree like path of exile where players got to pick and choose amazing abilities/passives from different covenants.

It’s a great example of misguided focus on the destination (all these end game systems) rather than the journey. Maybe I’m off base, but if the journey to endgame was this amazing, unforgettable experience that made you feel something about the world your character was in I think people would feel much differently about the state of WoW.

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452

btw, I said the current vault system is one of the toxic problems that is wrong with the game. It is a plague on this game and needs to be removed.

I implied it was bad and it’s one of the major things in this game that makes you feel bad playing it.

PS- It looks like at this time a healthy amount of people agree with my thoughts with a 147 upvotes to the OP. M+ and things like the vault put you on a hamster wheel, instead of a wonderful journey. The problem with modern WoW is clear. M+ is not content, it’s an activity that most of us don’t want to do.

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453

Raiding takes no skill, there I said it.

454

You’re spare parts bud

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455

I come from 2004 playing wow when came out. Having to think what enemy to cc in each pull, think properly who would have to cc next, trying to help the tank get less hits. Help the healer not been attack by enemies, as tank you had to feel when you got the agro and let everyone else know they can start hitting the boss would be a massacre 40 death players… Was fun to have all night one doungeon well thought instead speed it and not seeing anything big the map and be piss because was not done in time

I do not miss coordinating 40 people 4 tanks I am very thankful for flex. But I’d like the doungeons with no timer. Maybe that’s why I liked very much mechagon till they put the timer.

Maybe have some doungeons on timers and others don’t?

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456

147 upvotes on the general forums doesn’t mean anything, especially when spammed with multiple classic alts like yours. plenty of people disagree with your thoughts that this great vault is somehow detrimental to the game, i promise you that. many classic players just hate mythic+ because it’s too hard for them. to me, those aren’t the people that will give unbiased feedback on the system or how to improve it.

anyway you don’t like RNG, i get it. but if you put more effort into the vault, there’s almost always going to be some sort of an upgrade for you, until your gear plateaus.

It shouldn’t feel like you’re a hamster on a wheel if you’re actively doing the content and enjoying it. Since you’re not on your main, it’s hard to say, but i can guarantee you aren’t actively progressing in any of the 3 end-game pillars…because if i’m still getting weekly upgrades from just 3 chest options, to me that indicates gearing is fine at this point in the patch (as long as you’re active).

If you raid and do PvP content, you can get your 6 chests without really even thinking about it. If you’re feeling burned out because you don’t like playing any of the three end-game pillars, or don’t have the time to complete all activities, that’s an issue with end-game, not the vault itself.

btw mythic+ saved the game for sure. The issue is that there’s not many options for people that aren’t good at/don’t like mythic+ right now. it’s not forced content.

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457

Rehashed content is still content it’s right there in the name. Perhaps you mean to say it’s not Interesting Content? While this is subjective, at least it could still be correct for at least a portion of people. The original statement though is just objectively false.

That said, I hope Blizzard listens to your feedback despite the minor incorrect wording. It seems fairly well constructed.

458

I see, you don’t want to play the game. You want to have played the game. The good news is you can quit now and forever have played the game. That is if you can ever get over your crippling FOMO.

459

I assume that valor gear would be limited to 4-5 slots of 239 gear? That’s what it would have been in past iterations.

So every 3 weeks you can buy a 239 item that may or may not have the stats you want, and you can buy 4-5 total.

Instead of an entire dungeon based progression system for players who don’t want to raid that allows gearing up to 246-252 in every slot, with a minimum of 1 item every week.

Yeah, would be a “great” change for the playerbase.

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460

Dungeons and M+ is not this entirety of this game :man_facepalming: :rofl:

Dungeons are a tiny part of WoW. I have never bought a WoW expansions and said oh gee can’t wait to do some dungeons :joy: Stop trying to make up that dungeons are supposed to be the main focus of World of Warcraft. It would be World of Instance Craft then.

Wrong I want to experience the content, FINISH IT then move onto either new content or the activities that I enjoy. This is what MMO players want to do.

Why should we put more effort into this Toxic system that has hurt the game. The vault is absolutely horrendous for WoW and no version of it will be good. It’s an epically bad idea that contributes to the Toxicity and feeling of being on a hamster wheel in the game. A weekly chore list will never be good. It just won’t!

Fixing the game would be a better solution. We can fix the game by removing the vault. A lot more has to be done because SL is pretty far gone but we gotta start somewhere.

M+ and Arena isn’t content. They are activities. They have seasons and shouldn’t reward ANY gear. They should be ONLY for people that want to participate and compete in those activities. M+ and Arena should be for titles, mounts and cosmetics. This way everyone wins.

When you force people into these activities which is what the Vault and Gear rewards do, it is when you make these places Toxic Cesspools. Since people don’t like doing them but they have too. It isn’t complicated. We could make M+ and Arena a less toxic place so the people that want to do them aren’t burdened with all the people that don’t.

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