M+ is NOT content! The problem with modern WoW

PvP gearing was the best in WoD of any expansion though. The majority of PvP players will tell you that hands down it isn’t even debatable.

Odd that is literally all you have done here. You spend more time trying to discredit the players then actually discuss the topic.

Have you read the PvP forums at all specifically the BG ones where the majority of PvP players are? Most PvP players don’t do Arena and would love to just do BGs getting BiS gear for the activities they do. Which is why WoD will always be the best gearing expansion for PvP.

Yes getting geared quickly is fun as it allows you to move onto other content, alts or activities.

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You are wrong.

I remember I run Stratholme, Scholomance, BRD, UBRS, Dire Maul over and over during Vanila. While doing that, we raid over and over starting with Molten Core and Onyxia. Then raid over and over Black Wing Lair and ZG. Then raid over and over AQ20 and AQ40 until we reach Naxx40. While doing that, repeatedly do PvP until I reached Lt Commander.

Modern WoW like SHadowlands is the same. Do dungeons over and over but now with increasing difficulties. My favorites are Plaguefall, Necrotic Wake, Sanguine Depths, Theater of Pain and De Other Side. And weekly, there are new affixes to spice up Mythic+. While do that, we do raids over and over… we started with Normal CN then Heroic CN. Then now, we do raids over and over with SoD start with Normal then Heroic. It so happened I became Casual that I cant do PvP anymore. But if I have time, I would do Arenas and BGs over and over.

That is WoW. The core of the game since Vanilla is Dungeons, Raid and PvP. There are mini-games and old content. But they ARE TRIVIAL. I am not really into it but I do the dailies and weeklies. Most people are on ENDGAME.

If you’re not into dungeons, raid and PvP, what’s left on you are small content. You would be bored and you would cry on forums whining for not much content. Hey, there’s content. You just dont want to do it. Good luck to you. If you ask me, you are on a wrong game.

Edit: BTW, MMO is a game of grind. WoW is an MMO. All MMOs are like that. YOu do the content over and over. Even the weeb MMO game is a game of grind. If you dont want to grind, dont play an MMO. I am right. You are on a wrong game.

It was pretty clear mockery at the absurdity of what OP said. Sorry you’re taking it so seriously lol.

Because developers didn’t think, they copy.
They don’t understand are 2 different games, with diferent market.

But the sad part is. They didn’t listen to the feedback of the people how pay their salaries.

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It was very clear mockery making a very bad point. Sorry you can’t accept that :confused:

Show me these statistics lmao

don’t make statements of statistics without the evidence. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t means no one does.

I disagree.

In Wrath, heroics were not exactly significant. They were your source of pre-raid gear, and you may have to farm to get the drops you wanted, but drop rates were much better then. After that, they were nearly meaningless. You rofl-stomped them early on. Yet, you still ran them. Badges and weekly objectives sent you back in there, although, less frequently than M+. They found ways to make them repeatable content.

They also usually added new dungeons for each raid for a new source of pre-raid gear for catch-up. These would be harder, but, you still overgeared them relatively quickly. Still ran them, at least enough for the weekly objectives.

The difference, IMO, is simply that M+ now is an alternate gearing path to raiding. Back in Wrath, you could play the world in heroic 5 man gear just fine, but it was a significant step down from raid gear. Now, with M+, you can be equivalently geared from just 5 man content. This is fueling player choices in how often to run this content. This is also affecting Blizzard’s design decisions on drop rates to keep the pace of power progression similar to raiding.

So, yes, now it is nearly impossible to feel “done” with a character for the week and play an alt. In Wrath, I could pump out my weekly heroics in a single day, farm some mats for feasts/pots, do an hour or two of rep dailies, and outside of raid night itself, that character was done for the week. Yes, that let me play alts, and boy did I. And yes, I preferred the game better then. But, that doesn’t mean M+ isn’t “content”.

The “problem” is that in Wrath, you could be “done” for the week on a main or alt due to lockouts. Now, with M+ being infinitely farmable, yet, having very low drop rates, there is always power to chase. This means any time spent on alts is time stolen from your main that MIGHT increase your main’s power.

I will say, daily obligations like rep are more time consuming than they used to be, which doesn’t help, either.

Whether you recognize it or not, I think lockouts are what made Wrath alt friendly, not a redefinition of what “content” is.

If anything, what I would like to see is dynamic drop rates in M+. M 2-5 should have better drop rates to gear you “pre-raid”, and have the drop rates lower above that, similar to how it is now. This would let me get alts into that M2-5 gear range, where, if necessary, they are ready for a guild alt-raid or to pug on a night the guild isn’t raiding, without having to farm the vault for 10 weeks to get there, and still keep them from getting truly powerful gear too fast.

Until the weekly reset then you can do it again.

I completed the key though. So it is content.

I want to feel done for the expansion with a build so I make new builds, play Alts or just spend 40 hours a week playing the Activities I enjoy. I don’t want to do dungeons every week. I want to do them for the first few weeks and be done with them for the rest of the expansion. So I can move on.

How many hours should it take to get BiS and be done? It shouldn’t take longer than 2 weeks and 60-80 hours max. Ideally I’d like to complete a build then experiment with another build. That never happens though in SL. Everything is too gate-keeped with RNG.

In BFA oddly it was better :joy: I could complete a build feeling rewarded then make a new one. At least the corruption vendor was on rotation and could buy what you want and just make another build. In SL you can’t do that, you have to farm another Leggo pattern, grind torghast get soul ash, pay gold to buy the blueprint to craft it. Then farm the other gear.

The best part of this game is Theorycrafting and playing multiple builds and being able to move easily and quickly between them but that has all but been hard stopped in SL.

Again in BFA and sad it was so much better than SL but at least I had my TD build for Raiding/AoE farming. Then my Mastery Amp build for PvP, Then maybe a Tent build for solo dps to Stars. There were tons of ways to play your character in all the content.

In SL no chance, you can’t switch between Covs easily, craft new legendaries or gear compared to previous expansions. You are even more so on an endless grind that feels bad where you never arrive at a completed build or progression you can feel good about.

In SL when do we get finished with the chores so we can actually start playing the game? It seems like never and that is a massive failure in design that destroys the core of any MMORPG.

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I wonder how much of the population really do enjoy M+ I doubt it’s more than 10%. I think M+ has run it’s coarse and it’s time to abandon that system. Next expansion hard reset go back to the basics. Modern WoW isn’t really WoW.

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It’s cheap to make content that the masses gobble up cause they all want to flex how amazing they are to everyone when no one really cares. Mythic plus appeals to peoples vanity and tacks on a loot box at the end you get once a week so you can sit slobbering in front of a giant vault.

I don’t think it’s masses anymore. M+ is very niche and barely holding on. It did well when it was new and has had no real innovation. It’s definitely cheap lazy design that is for sure and yes some people like it. Not masses though.

The vault and weekly chest is the worst design they ever put into the game. Almost all gear in this game should be targeted and not RNG.

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Amen brotha! The only thing I could accept being rng are rare mounts and maybe legendaries.

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You said it brotha!

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It’s okay on some drops, mainly if they aren’t really needed for builds so it would depend on how Legendaries are designed. Rather there just be a vendor and you can buy the Legendaries.

So you’re saying TBC classic right now isn’t 99% instanced content?

Because…yeah it’s raid log on Tuesday then out for the week.

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The only non-instanced “content” in old expansions was rep-grinding for attunements and mounts. Other than that it was all instanced dungeons and raids.

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M+ is hard.

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Making actually content costs more money and cuts into profit margins… again I give kudos to blizzard for being able to literally make content at launch last all expansion just by resetting the ilvl every 6 months… just genius really and people eat it up lol doing the the same things over and over getting the same items just at a new higher ilvl…… just genius for reals.

so you complain you don’t gear fast enough, then you say get rid of the great vault…get rid of mythic plus gear as well is what you want… BUT you want to gear faster…you want more things to complete and do but they need to remove mythic plus from the game…you want the best pvp from random battlegrounds… i see where this is going… you want welfare gear.

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