am I allowed to point out that TBC has the exact same issues and is praised for them?
Nope. not allowed.
I humbly submit that content is simply what is in the game. Just like the contents of a box. It’s the stuff players can do within the game.
Anything else is adding the bias of the author to define worthwhile content by adding qualifiers, such as “completable.”
Tell him that equipping a crowbar isn’t an option when rolling the Game Director spec of the Dev class.
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agree buddy, but bliz is well aware of this and doesn’t share our design goals at all
they care about stretching /timeplayed to maximum without making more content than necessary - thus tons of new systems dedicated to increasing grinds on the same or less amount of content
this is no longer a passion project from dedicated gamers - it is a money project by people who only care about their paycheck and moving on to the next project
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I’m pretty sure the issue with M+ versus what TBC does with reputations and dungeons, is eventually you’re done with those and you move on to other content. Like make a different class, or go collect something, or move on to the next raid/dungeon.
But M+ just uses the same dungeon and makes it a bit harder. It uses the same content over. Which is why he’s saying it’s not content again. It’s still the same old content, not the next content.
And without M+, progression in the game is very very slow.
Maxing out a main is near impossible for most casuals, which is why they say this expansion is not alt friendly. There’s no end point for mains.
I quit at 60 after hitting renown 12 because there was too much of this circular content. I’ve played enough of this with their Diablo rifts. It’s just an easy way for Blizzard to get more play time from their customers while putting in less work and paying less devs.
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Stop trying to justify your activity you enjoy to the rest of the players when they don’t like it. It’s not a good system and that is why it hurts the community. Why do we have to toughen up and participate in it every week when we don’t enjoy it? That only hurts M+ overall. It’s the same for Arena, Zero rating should still give the best PvP reward. No Arena player should say 2200 is nothing just get it. When you should just get the best PvP gear from Conquest alone.
Things like the great vault or weekly chest need to go away because they are hamster wheel systems that take the fun out of completing content and getting a reward. You aren’t making a good argument and it would be better if these systems change so people aren’t gate-keeped behind them and can just play the aspects of the game that are fun.
Everyone wins.
Exactly. TBC is not a weekly chore you have to do for gear.
How you would fix the M+ system now is the best gear is rewarded at Mythic 0 and you get badges/valor in there to go buy the gear at a vendor you want. Perhaps an M+ rewards some resources faster but then once you get the item you want you are finished with them. You can feel good about being finished with them. Then actually get to something new you want to do or do it on another toon.
We really need to be able to get characters fully BiS geared in a few weeks. So people can move on and do other content or activities in game. The faster we are geared and getting into the things we enjoy the better overall experience the community will have.
It has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with how you want to spend your time playing a game. M+ should be a small part of the game. Don’t try to pass it off as the center focus of WoW because it’s not. It’s not content, it’s an activity most of us just don’t enjoy.
Again lets get players into what they do enjoy faster and not stuck on activities they hate.
Bingo
Many do and it’s a shame the Devs are so disconnected with the player base.
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Be more specific. What is being held back from you by some grind? Apart from actually attaining gear, there really is no grind. And that grind has been there from the start
Again, be specific. But here’s the thing: in order for it to matter to the overwhelming majority of this playerbase, as well as every mmo other than ff14, it has to be content that can fill about 30 hrs a week, has to be tied to player power, and has to be max level content.
Hit me with your best shot.
It been explained in this thread. Also if you don’t think SL is the most insane grind of convoluted systems then not sure what expansion you are playing. It’s BFA times 10 and that is why SL has had the biggest drop in subs of any expansion.
But here’s the thing, it has been explained already and I am not into repeating myself. You can read the thread. We can fix this game and get it back on track instead of it’s spiraling out of control. 9.1 obviously was a flop as well from every metric as players didn’t come back since they didn’t fix anything from 9.0.
Many of the solutions outlined above would be a start and alleviate a lot of pain points of players. There is a lot of work to do.
Man. Our folks were stuck playing Monopoly week after week and didn’t piss and moan about it. Come back after you’ve found a group of friends to play board games week after week for months on end with. Even WC2, (the very best Blizzard has EVER offered,) you know, it’s just a lot of the same game.
I’m not scanning hundreds of comments. Just give me a synopsis. max level, endgame, content that directly correlates to player power progression. we have raids, rated pvp and rated pve. Please tell me what would replace these things and provide 30+ hours a week of gameplay for semi hardcore players. Because, guess what? That is the majority.
Then you don’t care about the game or this thread enough to read what has already been stated. Are you an Alt just asking the same question to waste people’s time? Just read the thread or don’t. Then add in your thoughts where you care too. That is how it works. If you can’t take the time to dive into the discussion why should people take the time to engage in a conversation with you.
Plenty of good info above the rest is up too you. Good luck.
I fully agree with those saying that currently there is too much focus on instanced content and not enough focus on open world content. Blizz really needs to refocus on what makes World of Warcraft what it should be, a World, not instances. Right now it could be called Instances of Warcraft.
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Yea it’s a minigame right now. Most of us are looking for something more.
You frequently use the word “most” when trying to make your arguments. When asked to share sources, you ignore it. You don’t speak for the majority of the player base. There are many players who only play because of M+. Everyone knows that the forum only consists of a fraction of a fraction of the overall playerbase.
You keep talking in circles. You admitted that M0 and Raids are content, but somehow don’t think M+ is. Again, you are looking for a single player RPG.
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For me the issue all comes down to class balance.
As a hunter the nerf to wild spirits saw all 3 specs becoming unplayable. How to experience any content when I was unable to raid, m+ or RBG ?
Unplayable huh? How do I frequently time +18/19 keys with hunters then? Why do I see hunters keeping up with other dps classes? I think your issue is player skill.
No game dev team has the capability to provide you with 50 hours of non repeatable content every week. What you’re asking for is not achievable, aim lower.
Funnily enough, though, I think solving hardcore players problems in bfa would have actually helped casuals.
The wow team can produce new content, but the team behind gear and reward systems keeps ruining it.
Island expedition - not the greatest, more akin to mop scenarios. What ruined it? Character power tied to it, efficiency-hunting, timers (beat the enemy)
Horrific visions - challenging solo or group content. What ruined it for casuals? Overlapping affixes, timers, things not explained in game (potions, buffs, etc)
And now SL:
Torghast - sometimes fun, sometimes challenging content. What’s ruining it for casuals? Timers, death counters, a score system that’s not explained in game, tying character power behind it. Or how classes like shaman have multiple fun builds that you can use to sleep through the hardest floors while some other classes have just one good build and you can still get smashed.
They need to create content that is fun to do, not make it a mandatory 7 day /week grind, and not tie your dps to it.
They could go one step further and let people swap between specs easier instead of making systems that make you feel tired down to one spec or role at a time.
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Because they buffed the class 15% ? Duh ?
I’ve been playing with hunters from 9.0, 9.0.5, and 9.1. They have always been viable in M+. Again, skill issue.
I don’t have too the majority of the player base already spoke by leaving the game. There have been 2 mass exoduses and 9.1 flopped hard and didn’t win back the players that left. Keep in mind 41% of the players left in Jan. I was one of them. Then last quarter they lost another 2 million.
As for M+ participation at 9.1 launch it is less then the end of BFA. Think about that, like really think about that. The end of the previous expansion had more participation then the much awaited and anticipated 9.1.
Lets also not forget that the MAUs have returned to the level of the content drought of WoD in 2016. Which if you understand MAUs you realize that if you play WoW, OW and Warzone that is 3 MAUs. They have more ways to get MAUs now but are matching the worst content drought still in WoD.
What is going to happen the rest of the year? Get better? NO 9.1 is a Yuuuge swing and a miss. Then with other games releasing their expansions or new title this game will only stand to lose yet another large portion of their player base.
I know it, Blizz know it and damage control has to be done to salvage this sinking ship. Obviously you might keep denying it but that won’t fix the catastrophic issues currently happening. I’m about having solutions.
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