same here. i used to think m+ was stupid and i didn’t see the point. i just wanted to raid. i’ve done a full 180. i’ll raid when i have to since the good trinkets are there, but it’s just a means to an end. i would 100% have unsubbed long ago without m+.
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M+ is one of the few reasons I eventually re-sub. I haven’t been subbed all expansion and a few weeks ago decided the mogs were cool so I been pumping keys and did all 20+s on Tyran and fort and now have all of the mogs from LFR, normal, heroic, and mythic raid. So many people enjoy M+, so OP narrative is false. If there was no M+ it’d be back to super boring weekly raiding with nothing to fill time in between.
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M+ gives me a reason to play and even entertainment. And to be honest, even though people say the m+ community is toxic, I enjoy it. I like all the toxicity it’s sort of fun to see people lose their minds over a key. I like the competition of it and the challenge even the gearing up process.
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Op, what do you want us to do in the game? Do you just want all of us to sit down and play pretty princesses or something? Sure, Blizzard should add new content, but a bunch of people do m+ and truly enjoy it.
What proper new content do you want? Let’s start there.
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Mythic plus is not the reason we’re not getting content. It is rehashed content which is the easiest and fastest to release to players.
I think you’re convinced that it’s this or other content. I believe it’s this or drought alone. I have played long before they had mythic plus. And that was the case
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i have to be honest, i see almost no toxicity. i started doing m+ again toward the end of season 1 of SL, and have been doing it every season since then. in all that time i’ve had 2 people rage whisper me. most groups i’m in are super chill and even when people screw up it’s “mb, stood in the frontal, i’m the worst” “lol np we’ve all done it” and we move on. i don’t doubt toxicity exists but i have seen very very little of it.
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Toxic is a nothing word. somebody leaves because the timer ran out… Toxic.
somebody telling me to run back verses being rezzed… toxic.
Not getting invited. toxic
Being told to start your own group. You better believe that’s toxic
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It kept players playing (and paying to do so) while running the same content over and over and over…
That’s why I hate it so…
They hated him because he told the truth.
You assume the art team and encounter design team are also part of the balancing team, which is utter lunacy.
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I think it is sad that so many people in this thread would quit the game if they didn’t have M+, says a lot about the current state of retail WoW.
Think about it for a sec, people are advocating for endless spamming of the same 8 dungeons or recycled old dungeons for their content. I mean, who think that is worth 15 bucks a month these days?
I know the game has always had this raid or die design, but to argue that M+ somehow fixes the lack of things to do at end game is just silly. It is a bandaid fix to a larger problem that Blizzard has had since the game launched.
This idea that modern WoW needs to follow the same model endgame in 2023 as it always did is a silly argument as well.
Even though the game is old, people are still interesting in the IP. The game has had a lot of updates over the years to bring it in line with other modern MMOs as far as visuals go. The systems, the story and the end game content have been severely lacking now for several expansions.
You can tell that the development team is trying to bring new ideas into the game, trying to solve this raid or die and M+ or die issue, but they just don’t understand what makes a fun MMO.
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I mean that’s how we got to where we are. They can’t keep up with content making faster than we consume it.
You can’t just throw money at it either. content takes time. It’s not always universally accepted and sometimes ignored. You either slow our consumption… Put more content in or keep people engaged with what you have.
We still have content droughts but this is a bridge pvp cant support alone
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“Nurse there is blood spurting from this wound…”
“Oh! Hereʻs a bandaid”
“Its still spurt-”
“Hereʻs another bandaid”
“But itʻs still blee-”
“Iʻll just add another bandaid”
"But - "
“And another bandaid”
“How is this even helping?”
“Well, I am charging you for every bandaid, so theres that.”
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I think they made gearing way too easy. The older versions of the game had a way slower rate of gear acquisition, which kept people playing.
Now, you’re geared out in a few weeks, but they dangle the RNG gear slot machine (vault) in order to keep people engaged.
The seasonal resets stink too, the automated grouping tool fixed this issue of people being left behind if they started in the middle of an expansion. This play the patch nonsense stinks too.
The developers are the own worst enemies in my opinion. They are so worried about getting people into that M+/Raid/ and rated PVP gear grind, that they have kind of destroyed the pace of the game, thus them not being able to keep up with creating content. Now, they rely on a handful of content loops and extreme RNG gear drops to keep players engaged while they try to pump out more content.
Edit: They turned WoW into a seasonal ARPG basically.
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I can’t tell blizzard what content to put in the game that people are going to love… I can tell them that their next experiment Better have as good gear to raid to be successful. Of course you want a progression system to keep people doing it…
I am of the mentality that the only reason mythic plus is successful is because it had as good if not better gear than raid… It definitely helped that you weren’t time locked behind a weekly lockouts.
I will flat out say mythic plus would have failed without gear. You treat that like torghast… nobody’s doing that. And as much as the raiders and mythic plus people will throw a fit out of a third gear option… It’s because they know people won’t do it without that carrot dangling.
Gear. Is. Key.
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Yep, I’ve seen so many comments on Reddit, Youtube, these forums MMO blogging sites, that people aren’t really fans of M+, that they’re doing it for the gear.
This idea that M+ has replaced raiding for a lot of people is just crazy to me as well. WoW was good because of it raids. A lot of people say that they would like to raid, but they don’t have time for it, hence why they just stick with M+.
I think Blizzard needs to sit down and kind of rethink their raid design. Maybe the days of 8-14 boss raids should be discarded in favor of smaller raids that are spread out among multiple raid dungeons. Like instead of making 1 raid per patch with 12 bosses, they could make 3 raid encounters that are 3 bosses per.
They could also cap the raid size at 10, or 12 if they finally went to 6 man group sizes for dungeons.
There just hasn’t been any innovation in WoW’s endgame now for years. The addition of M+ really hasn’t made the end game better, it just gave people access to raid level gear without the hassle of putting in the time, it is no brainer that the bulk of population would take the path of least resistance.
The problem is though, a lot of people didn’t sign up to play MMO that is an e-sport, which M+ clearly is.
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I will take it a step further. And say raid wouldn’t be popular with just cosmetics either. And would fail and collapse the same.
Gear is the only thing i’ve seen people consistently respond to
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M+ is the most enjoyable part of the game right now. It isn’t killing wow, it’s keeping it alive.
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Dungeons are like smaller, better raids. 
You an do them with a handful of friends instead of tagalongs and they’re less of a time commitment which is great for more casual players.
Like it or not it’s one of the most successful features they’ve ever added and they’re never going away.
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