Are you suggesting the vast majority of people doing m+ are just pushing eSports levels of runs?
That just seems like a wild claim.
M+ is easily one of the best features s added precisely because it lets players set their own standards and goals on their own time with only 4 other players instead of 9 (pvp) or 19 (mraid).
It’s not perfect by a long shot and it does have its downsides like recycling old dungeons. However, the complaint there should be for blizz to just make more better dungeons, not eliminate m plus entirely.
It’s not like m plus simply cannot be done without the best of the best of the best set up. Will it be the most efficient? No, of course not, but every game has their metas.
You can choose to not be a meta slave and choose to make your own groups.
By the time I hit 25s, and feel the need to complain, I’ve already achieved a lot.
and the fact that other people run keys at a higher level than you (or I) affects you — how?
in your world, those players - and myself - would have nothing to do at all. they’d run your trivial little puzzle dungeon and be done for the week. then do… what, exactly?
you know what we used to do before m+ was a thing back in WoD? After our weekly challenge modes were done, we flew circles around the fountain in our garrison complaining about how bored we were.
great gameplay.
m+ brought in a new approach to dungeons. We could grab some friends and go push the difficulty as high as possible, and it’s been a huge success. I can push 20’s and up on my main, but when I want to chill a bit I can grab an alt for some easy 17s. there’s literally always something to do.
I personally love m+. it revamped the game and is the single best thing that’s been added.
It affects the game when they should be creating challenging content that everyone can enjoy and it is not a recycled timed dungeon. Man imagine if they made BRD style dungeons these days and they were even more difficult, taking players months to progress through. That would be awesome.
just… stop and think about this. we play the game at VASTLY different levels. wtih m+, there’s something for both of us. I can run my 21-22s, johnny mccasual can run his 5s, and hardcore bob over there can push 26s. something for everyone.
with your idea, there’s only something for you, because what might take YOU weeks (months? don’t be absurd), will take me and my friends a few hours.
or, if they really DO make the content so difficult it takes players capable of playing at a more difficult level months to complete, it will mean the masses - those who struggle to kill turtles in the open world? they’ll never be able to complete it.
bad design. “challenging content that everyone can enjoy” can’t exist, in the way you want it. what’s challenging for Johnny McCasual is trivial for Hardcore Bob. and that’s the great thing for m+, a difficulty level for everyone.
MONTHS to get through? Jesus man. Even when brd was relevant it was very unpleasant the second run through. I don’t have 5 hours to spend in a dungeon that’s full of basically all tank and spank fights.
I do however have time for 35 intense minutes of combat which (if I choose) challenge my reaction speed, knowledge of my kit, how I interact with party members, which mobs are specifically dangerous on fort weeks, which bosses need me on my a game for tyr weeks, etc.
As someone who enjoys the skill aspect of the game rather than sheer hours spent playing, m plus is lovely. The best thing is that that “skill” needed is commensurate with the challenge. In a +4 no one cares if I mass blind the pelters in NL. In a 14 however, that mass blind could easily save someone’s life and save the healer some brown pants. In a 2 no one cares if drop that snake bosses orb in the right place. In a 12 it can easily cause a wipe if placed badly. The idea is that as you grow, you learn and adapt. Don’t like the pressure? Tune it down! Like it? Ramp it up!
I understand the allure of old school dungeoneering for hours. But times change.
I have more faith in the WoW community than that…I cannot believe I typed that. People would adjust, learn to use their class to it full potential and eventually succeed. Even if they did not clear all the bosses they would still get gear for that specific dungeon, aka set pieces, which I miss dearly that would only help them in that dungeon. Once you triumph over it imagine the feeling. In the end you would have gear for that dungeon that helps you in that dungeon and of course transmogs and would be able to get better and stronger. It would be a replacement for those who do not want to do mythic raiding.
That is fair to be honest but if Blizzard implemented the dungeons I am talking about I think mythic + would die down and you would get dedicated players who want to have a real challenge where the dungeon changes each time and there are random events like puzzles and traps, weird changes to boss mobs etc.
My friend, you are just wrong. It’s a great notion but the reality is the exact opposite. We saw just this with cataclysm dungeons. They were extremely difficult compared to wrath dungeons, and there was an immense amount of negative feedback. Ghostcrawler (the lead dev at the time) had to post a lengthy blog post defending their design. I’ll try to find it.
The reality is, people won’t rise to the challenge. history has proven that.
my friends who i run keys with have all agreed if they ever add brd to m+ we will not be running it. nobody likes that horrible dungeon. it wasnt even liked enough back in vanilla for most people to get the key for urbs. people would rather pay some1 who suffered to get it than have it themself. that says more than enough about a brd style dungeon
I don’t think BRD style dungeons would be popular.
Heck, it wasn’t popular in classic.
Smaller, 3-5 boss dungeon design has been a mainstay since TBC. It’s not some new mythic+ thing.
Also UBRS, live/undead strat, and all 3 wings of dire maul are fairly in line with modern dungeon layout.
There is also a reason scarlet Monestary was incredibly popular. Remember both horde and alliance have a level 30-40 dungeon next to their capital city. SM is super popular while Gnomer is not, I wonder why? SM is even more popular with alliance despite the massive run there instead of walking 2 minutes from Ironforge.