Not gonna lie, I completely lost you in your paragraph about how you want an entire role to disappear.
Your lack of understanding of basic game design is way too big to take you seriously. You know there are people who enjoy healing in this game and you’ve seen them complain about being forced to do something else other than their healing role, or complain about getting outright removed from groups for being unnecessary.
Now if you subjectively enjoy running without healers, that’s one thing, but attempting to convince the playerbase that your subjective preferences should be valued above the masses in a MMO is WILD to say the least.
You don’t know where you belong, you think of yourself way higher than where you sit, and at the end of the day you just don’t like a game mode that many enjoy. Not saying it’s perfect, but you’re mentioning things that have to do with the very core pillars of this game and pretend they should do away with those under your reasoning of :
As if the concept of making groups with only a tank and 4 dps while the healers are forced to stay in town is a less boring concept.
Quite frankly, and in all politeness, you are an idiot.
Probably yeah, and it’s precisely because of the reason you mentioned. The gap between good and bad players are just too wide.
People are saying that dungeons this season are too hard, and these are people that only do up to +10 keys, sometimes not even that. Meanwhile there’s players doing +16 keys without a healer, which goes to show how harmless these dungeons are when mechanics are properly executed. It’s just that most people fail mechanics every other second, and thus need a healer to cover their mistakes.
I’m not going to lie, I consider myself to be a fairly good player doing +14 keys and hovering around 3.1k io, but I wouldn’t stand a chance in a key that consists of 1 tank and 4 DPS (at least not in a +12 key or higher). I also need that healer to cover our mistakes.
If a dungeon requires killing more trash than a reasonable path through it(looking at you Mists and Necrotic Wake) then it’s poorly designed. You shouldn’t get to the end of the dungeon and have to go back to kill more trash. It’s stupid.
Might as well remove the mob count entirely in that case, which is silly.
Routes add another layer of skill, and it promotes not skipping as much as possible. It’s a good thing, and if anything there should be more routes to consider in future dungeons.
I read this as if you personally don’t want to have to think about the route, just move forward and kill only what’s blocking your path to the bosses. Did I misunderstand?
Yea definitely. That’s why it can get sketchy with 2 dispels.
Group comp aside, I agree that most caster packs can be handled pretty well. but you can really feel the bad ones. I’ve ran far too many GBs, SVs, and NWs this season and they’ve prolly skewed my PoV when it comes to kicks. I think im at over 100 GBs.
We’d have to see how things play out with the meta because depending on who gets what back, things will shift. As for trivializing dungeons, that’s part of the point. While I don’t think it’d fully trivialize dungeons, it’d at least make them easier by some degree and hopefully that gets more people to play them.
Dude Karazhan Crypts looks sick. 10/10 atmosphere especially if you’re a lore nerd.
Yea, but even with reduced amounts or no arbitrary AoE rot and casts going out, the tank still has to live. I don’t know if I explicitly stated this or not, but I’m for keeping tank busters. Though, probably don’t make them all magic damage. I think Blizz said they were gonna reduce the amount of tank busters going forward, but they’re still gonna be there. I’ve don’t think I’d ever get to see my stagger go into the red so much and so fast w/o tank busters. If you add in scaling, heals are def still gonna be needed to keep the tank alive.
That’s a pretty good way to put it. But I also want Blizz to return player power to handle the “interrupt this cast” or “kill this bomb before it goes off” better.
I agree that they dont have to be mutually exclusive. However, we are so deep in the end of emphasis on output and resource management that we got Grim Batol where every boss has unavoidable AoE rot or dam, and the caster trash came to party. Hell, the melee trash came to party too.
And how is it bad argument? Do you disagree that Blizzard has gradually stripped tools away from the playerbase over the years resulting in people picking for specific specs that still retain their best tools?
It feels like we’re on close to the same page then. While I don’t think Fort+Tyran should be baked in, I’d take older affixes like Bursting, Necrotic, Bwonsamdi’s, entangling, or incorporeal over Fort + Tyran.
If this is what you have gleaned from this thread, I’d recommend you read it again. Especially the conversation between me and the level 10 orc hunter.
I don’t think that healers will ever disappear because at the end of the day, the tank still has to live and tank busters aren’t going anywhere. Scaling in M+ basically guarantees healers will still be around.
I understand that Blizz wants healers to heal, but they went about it in a way that (perhaps unintentionally) overemphasizes resource management and it was lazy. They just slapped unavoidable AoE damage in every dungeon. Of course that’s conceptually boring. It’s just busywork. Blizz could have made cool interactions with boss fights and mechanics and instead they basically just spilled a drink on the ground and told healers to go clean to give them something to do.
Take Stitchflesh for example. Get rid of the AoE aura on the aboms. Start with two so tank pressure is still a concern. Make Stitchflesh spawn more aboms if he isn’t hooked, and add other objects in the room that you can hook. Make said object require heal to full or something bad happens, and heal it up and something good happens. Meanwhile Stitchflesh can still chuck out his rando needle.
OR
Make more fights like EDNA where you have the creative freedom to dictate the amount of incoming damage. And you have a dispel that isn’t just you see bad debuff you hit dispel.
OR
You do a reverse Vol’kaal where you have to heal three things up in about the same time for X to happen.
There were and are plenty of options that aren’t just heal this AoE big dam over and over again. AoE big dam that, mind you, also eats into the group’s defensives too.
The idea isn’t to get rid of healers. It’s to reduce the heavy emphasis on resource management in game where Blizz has taken from and given to the various specs unevenly. And if 1-0-4 comps happen to become more viable, so be it because scaling will eventually force 1-1-3. Healer engagement is a valid concern, but the way Blizz decided to handle it is boring, has negative externalities, and they could do waaay better.
The bar must be incredibly low if you think following a pre-planned route to kill extra trash is “player skill.” Most people just get an add-on to do it.
It’s still promotes tactic and strategy, rather than zug-zug behavior. Why would you be opposed to that if it’s such a minor thing anyway? Just do the proper amount as you go for the boss, and you won’t have to turn back at all. If it’s such a minor thing then missing the count should literally never happen to you.
I feel like this only applies to NW, and how much you consider delicately pulling the first boss without aggroing trash to be a “reasonable” path. Maybe they upped the required slightly too high vs SL.
People take care to skip some packs in early Mists so they need to pull more bugs at the end.
With how dawnbringer is laid out you could skip a crazy amount of trash (like how people do on heroic).
The overtuned damage is what blizzard does to make it more difficult. They take an m0 and then scale up the damage each key level.
Problem I thought with the current mythic+ season is that the damage starts out a bit too high for new tanks and healers in m0’s. I would’ve done a different curve in difficulty opposed to what we have now. Make 2’s-5’s easier but gradually more difficult and then add in a lot more difficulty at a +6.
What we have now is that players go from heroic dungeons which are pretty easy to an m0 which is crazy hard
Ya, nothing says fun when the hook bugs out, and it still does at times… Stitchflesh has always been terrible encounter, back to back boss fights are pretty bad too
But in all seriousness. I just wish they’d get rid of the timers. There’s plenty of ways to make the content hard without it being so toxic.
I didn’t really try M+ until Shadowlands, and while I got to +8’s and above, by that point it just wasn’t fun. Since I was a SV Hunter (which at the time wasn’t considered amazing) it was hard to get into groups, so I would usually run my own keys. And I can’t tell you how many times people would bail after a death or two. The runs were salvageable, but people gave up and ruined my keys. Nevermind all the cussing and screaming at each other. Just not fun to do at all.
I would much prefer they just find another way to make it hard.
from what I understand, this is getting worse in S2.
i agree with much of what you wrote.
the OP sigil kit of VDH obviously needed to be nerfed. but they not only nerfed illuminated sigils, they nerfed all aoe silences. then they added more caster crap. and the “shoot” mobs are uninterruptable.
the death penalty to the timer was simply stupid.
the loss of the m0-9 keys was enormous in my opinion.
I don’t know how much time I will have to play S2. I mostly tank to the 2-25.k range. I am looking at either my VDH or BDK. I think my tank will need as much agency as possible since healers are going to struggle in s2 i think.
What tools were stripped? If you are going to make arguments at least be specific. “Excel Spreadsheet” is a non descript jargon which is why I am saying it’s a bad argument.
Yes, I agree with you on the affixes. I think I may have just misunderstood your point earlier on this.
I’m glad people are finally beginning to understand this after they screamed for seasonal affixes to be removed and then screamed for all affixes to be removed. I am not going to do M+ beyond getting ksh/ksm until blizzard blizzard brings affixes back.
All AoE dam got nerfed, unequally too might I add. All hard AoE CC got nerfed. Hell, some CCs have been straight up removed, and they’d be a god send in M+. Then Prot Pally avenger’s shield bounce silence got nerfed because it was too useful after everything else got nerfed. Then DH sigils got nerfed because it was too useful after everything else got nerfed. We’re literally picking through the scraps of what’s left. And to add to that, due to the Blizz’s love of AoE rot dam, every boss fight becomes who’s got more/better defensives they can rotate and everyone realized that feint is real good.
That’s why people call it an excel spreadsheet. It’s a whole lotta data of who has what and who doesn’t going into a form of content that focuses significantly on resource management.
IIRC, Surv was nuts in the last season or so of SL. And yea pugging sucks. A lot. And it’s only gotten worse. That said, find some friends or guildies to run keys with. Those are usually pretty fun and character forming even if things hit the fan.
Bugs in a fight does not make it a bad fight. The devs should definitely fix it, and if they can’t they should add more time to the timer to make up for it. Or fix it and add more time to the timer anyway for letting it slip through and hitting live.