Yes but still awkward.
The easiest choice. Heroic bosses dropping gilded was a nice bonus
Doubling gilded crests from raid should help people avoid content they don’t want to run or crests in general.
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From what I hear the first 3 bosses are quite puggable this tier. Only had first boss pulls so far but it seemed like it could be killed in 25 pulls or less.
but why does it have to depend on that? the communities aren’t the same. Sure, there is some overlap. I raid heroic only and I do keys, but keys were my only “push” path and I dont think locking the highest crests behind 9s and then demanding 10s to get myth track gear wasn’t a fair change.
It walled a bunch of us off, and fast.
I also dont want to slog it in keys I have no hope of timing.
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You could use this same logic to say that Blizz should gatekeep Gilded crests behind +15’s or whatever
And so what if they do?
The principle thing is that SOMEONE can’t get over the wall.
Is it only an issue if that someone is you?
If people have metrics they want to meet as an argument, sure, we can lower it to satisfy those metrics.
But on basis that it’s not fun for someone because of the difficulty alone is no reason to change.
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I sincerely hope this experiment with fort and tyrannical at +10 and above dies with this expansion.
I don’t know what the solution is since everyone hated the previous affix system, but as it stands right now, I have attempted a 10…three times now I think…and each time has been less fun than the last. I have never had my interest in an expansion wane as quickly as it has this go around.
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Oh, I hope it doesn’t die with this expansion.
I hope it dies with this season.
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Just a reminder that up until Dragonflight, 15s were the gear cap key level. That’s a +5, today.
I actually think that probably is a bit too low for gear to stop. 20 is probably too high for bottom of the barrel myth gear to begin. DF had a balance, just tell Blizz to go back to that and stop trying to reinvent the wheel or recalculate solved problems. DF’s loot was GOOD, maybe a bit too quick, but that’s solved by expanding the loot tracks like they did.
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The reality is more people are now behind the wall and you know this. Your argument of “well the wall has to start somewhere” is in bad faith seeing as its blocking out folks who have played the game in the past with a clear progression path without mythic raiding.
A lot less people are gearing up past 620 and you think this is good why?
Less people are engaging with the content and you think this is good why?
Have you not seen the threads of however many people detailing the exact same issue and scenario being discussed ad nauseum here and you think everything is fine why?
Is it because of elitism? ‘Scrubs’ should never have access to the best gear, even if it takes them longer to get? Why do you care so much about gatekeeping?
Why dont you come out and just say it? Go on and tell us the famous phrase and whats really on your mind ‘get good’. You argue in such bad faith with no consideration for other players just because YOU enjoy the challenge of M+ in its current state. Newsflash: you can STILL enjoy the challenge EVEN IF the reward structure was changed to allow more folks to progress.
Ive written it before and here it is again, you gate people out of gear progression, they have and they will leave the game behind, so you’ll be happy to enjoy the game with your other elitist buddies once everybody left. And then you can tell us in a deserted wasteland how right you were.
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Right, but should it be easier so more people can be on the other side?
People doing harder content get better rewards. I don’t see anything wrong with this.
Because if the only solution for them to engage is to give them the best gear, that’s not really sustainable, especially if that barrier was lowered to an absurdly low level before.
Many players are bad at the game.
I’m fine with lowering everything lfr and equivalent difficulty and everything can be about cosmetics. No need to worry about even a single mythic key.
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There should be a progression path so more people can get to the other side, you’ve already been told this 100x are you trolling?
People who could over time get gear to ovecome harder content can’t do that anymore, that’s whats wrong. ‘goo’ players don’t need better rewards to clear hard content, that’s what makes them good. Less good players need constant gear progression to push through, again, are you trolling?
How is it not sustainable, it worked for the last 5 seasons, 18s were NOT an absurdly low bar. You are trolling.
Yes many players are bad at the game and need gear to help them. Whats your point? You want less people to continue playing the game, why dont you just speak plainly?
Your last point doesnt add anything to the dscussion, you are just trolling.
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There is a progression path.
With gear you acquired before doing a +9, is sufficient to do a +9.
If skill is brought into the equation, Blizzard cannot guarantee people are good enough for the next level up.
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Your right, it seems in the current state they put the cart in front of the horse.
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Not garantee? What are you on about? Im over here talking about people not having the skillset to finish 9s and 10s at 619 and needing better gear to compensate for the lack of skills to eventually finish and time those. Players at 619-620 will remain there while the ones already farming gilded crests will only widen the gap so the choice in 2 weeks will be; 620 vs 630. Gee I wonder who is going to get a group made/invited. This essentially kills pugging and progression in a way it didnt before. Do you realize that?
Need I remind you hero gear and runes crests are rewarded from a +3 all the way to a +8? How is that a good reward structure? By the time you farm 8s for hero gear, you are already capped at 619 from gear you already got and crests upgrade.
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Everyone did not hate the previous affix system, they disliked certain affix’s and combo’s that could have been fixed easily. It worked out fine for years until a bunch of out touch streamers and their drone followers started saying m+ needed to be revamped. And here we are…
I agree with you for the most part, but since every person arguing with you is incapable of providing any sort of physical numbers to help their cause I guess I will for them. And people can now argue on what an acceptable % of people completing these keys would be.
Raider IO as of October 4th has a sample size of 8,910,134 Total TIMED keys.
1,311,441 timed runs 9-14
14% of the total player base completing keys is timing 9-14 keys. Which is not bad. It’s week 3. These numbers are also heavily influenced by people who do not even attempt to push that high. There will be a large portion of the player base that stays 7s and below by choice.
All completed 9’s has a sample size of 1,171,097 and all timed 9’s is 862,776.
I assume “all run leaderboards” and “all timed” leaderboards share a pool of players which would mean that 73% of people finishing a 9 complete it in time. (I have no way to see 9s attempted and not finished, even if there was a way it could be influenced by afk or people leaving for other reason than just not being able to complete)
There are 1,405,977 timed 7 runs and 862,776 timed 9’s. Most of the people completing 7s are also completing 9’s.
EDIT: ^last notion above may not be correct as everyone that runs 9s may not run 7s if they do not require the rewards. A better way to phrase it would be that the number of people completing 9s is 61% the size of people completing 7's. There may also be a number of people completing 7s that never enter or try a 9 because they are satisfied with rewards or difficulty the 7 offers.
All numbers taken from raider io as of 10/4/24
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-tww-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=2:maxMythicLevel=99
Did you just say 14% of total playerbase doing keys is timing keys 9 to 14? Did I read that correctly? You are aware the same players are timing the same keys aka farming crests right? These are not 1311441 unique accounts timing keys 9 to 14.
Here’s a better stat to look at, compare SL and DF season 1 first week/second week/third week to TWW same weeks. Could you pull up those numbers?
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YA sorry 14% of timed keys are in the 9-14 range. I guess playerbase is the wrong way to phrase it my apologies.
Dragonflight is hard to to compare to since the key level changes and how they were bracketing it on rio.
There were 6,582,822 Timed Keys run in the sample size from May 8th 2023 (Season 1)
There were 2,304,944 Timed Keys run in the sample size from June 14th 2023 (Season 2)
The numbers seem a bit weird, they are from awhile ago and not sure if that is beginning of season or end of season numbers or if things are lost in translation. But if they are accurate there would be more timed runs right now than during that week of season 1 and 2.
Season 4 had a whopping 18,919,245 Timed Keys recorded on August 9th 2024. Huge number but also last season of xpac with free gear handed out like crazy and a higher startpoint of gear going into the season. People getting character ready for new xpac. Recycled dungeons so most people knew routes and fights… Seems like it would be an outlier to compare this with the start of a season.
EDIT:
Just for a point though this happens the other way around too. I know even my group of friends may do 10s for vault then proceed to spam 30-40 keys in the 7 range to gear crests and heroic loot. The number of keys run in the sub 9+ bracket are going to be heavily inflated by people doing this as well.
And someone needs better gear to do +2s.
Someone needs better gear to do +0s etc.
There is no guarantee that people will be able to do content regardless of the gear they receive.
How many do you think need 619s to time a +2?
1 Like