The easiest way to gear is pvp.
It’s the most lucrative.
It allows for targeted gearing.
It has to be nerfed.
Do mythic
The best gear still comes from mythic raids/pvp
Heroic is zerg mode, will forever be zerg mode. And Mythic + is way harder than heroic/normal mode will ever be in WOW
Nerfed vault rewards seem unlikely, even if the rewards are arguably too good. If you nerf them, you’d have sort of a balancing issue there. Players that only run keys would have a hard time getting into them when most raiders are probably doing at least a few keys a week.
The PvP gearing system seems to only be OP if you have a solid, talented group to run with. From my experience, hitting 1800 or higher Rating in PvP is not that easy.
…& of course Mythic Raiding will always be the best gear, but the difficulty of running a successful Mythic Raid Team in comparison to running +14 Dungeons isn’t even comparable.
Getting Mythic Raid level gear through the M+ Vault system may be slow since you only get one piece out of three choices every Tuesday, but it’s still an easy & overpowered way to get it for players who couldn’t do Mythic Raid.
It wasn’t that long ago that completing a 10 rewarded the high ilvls. I think 14’s and 15’s are fair. It’s a pretty small percentage of the playerbase that does them. Nerfing those would give raiders a pretty big advantage in keys. I’m not sure that Blizzard appeals to the larger number in that scenario.
timing 15s for a chance at 1 piece of 226 per week is not a fast way to gear up. It’s a nice way to gear up during a patch. Also, I’d hate to have tried to time 15s for KSM without 226 gear in many spots.
Nerfing the Vault Dungeon slots or buffing the Vault Raid slots wouldn’t give Raiders an advantage. Especially now that you can upgrade Dungeon drops with Valor. The Vault items may only be a chance at a useable piece once per week, but it adds up. The difference between the Vault items for Raid slots & Dungeon slots in comparison to difficulty is what’s unbalanced. Most players are completing +14 keys.
I don’t think that’s true. Most players don’t do keys at all. In a scenario where the vault was nerfed in the 14 and 15 range, you’d need to be a mythic raider to get into those keys. There’d just be no reason to take a heroic raider or someone that doesn’t raid at all.
1 Like
A player with full Heroic Raid gear shouldn’t have any problem getting into & completing a +14 or +15 key. The only hard part is trying to get into a pug group without a good IO score, but if you have 4 buds to go in with, you should be good. Still a much easier option to acquire 226 gear than Mythic Raiding.
Players were doing 15’s with like 195, so gear isn’t the only barrier. That said, in a scenario where the vault is nerfed, why wouldn’t the leader take the player with the higher ilvl…assuming the io is acceptable for that key. It happens now.
Gearing only through the vault is really slow. It’s meant to supplement other gearing paths. Most raiders do keys. Why wouldn’t they? It makes the encounters easier. If you’re stopping after aotc and not running keys, then I can kind of understand your argument, but I think this stuff is designed with the idea that people are going to dabble in mythic a bit.
2 Likes
Meh m+ gearing is fine. Is it good? Definitely… It’s only really op compared to heroic raiding. Still heroic raiding is pretty easy honestly.
Instead of any changes to m+ I’d rather just see one bonus roll a week be given back to raiders. There is usually some good gear from raid. Even if this tier wasn’t insane there’s been plenty where it is. I’d check nylotha out for example, I can’t tell you how many pvpers felt the need for those trinkets/weapons. The heroic versions > glad level versions.
So tldr… Give raiders a roll a week and leave everything else.
1 Like
Getting roll coins back would be ok but it still wouldn’t equal out the higher ilvl of the Dungeon Vault items. I’d much rather see Heroic Raiders get an ilvl boost on their Vault slots in the same way the Dungeon slots do.
Either way, heroic is outgeared pretty quickly. It’s probably tuned with like 205-210 in mind. There’s probably just not going to be a scenario where heroic is kept current for a considerable length of time.
Raid loot, specifically the vault needs to be updated to be in line with the other GV methods.
Raiding is the only form of content where you can’t gear as you progress. You’re trying to push glad or +20s? Even if you don’t reach that milestone you’re still winning arena matches and getting conquest or still beating keys and getting EOC loot and GV progress.
Whereas if you’re on a prog boss that’s taking more than a couple dozen pulls to beat? Then nobody in the raid gets loot until that boss dies. And with how the raid GV actually works, once you reach the point in the raid where it’s more efficient to extend rather than reclear, you’re basically never getting raid drops from it.
The raid GV needs to have it’s metrics reworked. Make the upper limit of what the gear offers based on what bosses you’ve killed, but tie the actual slot unlocking to something else.
It’s interesting in that we currently have a system where gear isn’t really the goal in raiding. It’s all about achievements now.
That’s basically all raiding has left.
Being able to get max ilvl gear has become the norm for so long due to M+ that the only thing left is to distinguish players through achievements.
I think there’s something to be said for it early in the tier. M+ just supplements that raid gear really nicely. At this point in the tier, with a lot of guilds extending the lockout, it’s arguably the worst way to gear.
Yeah that’s my point.
The Raid GV is basically designed to be useless for raiding. You’ll almost never want it’s options if you’re doing Heroic Farm since failing a 14 will give a better choice 90% of the time (there are some corner cases with trinkets) and the nature of it’s design makes it practically useless for Mythic raiding.
You’ll virtually never unlock more than the first slot unless you’ve already got M Nathria on farm, because as a general rule of thumb once guilds kill get up to Council (the 6th boss), they usually extend until Denathrius dies (or they get as far as they can during the tier) making the first slot, let alone the second, completely unachievable until the gear is no longer needed.
As a gearing system, Raiding is woefully outdated next to PvP or M+. But lucky for us, Blizzard still puts a lot of love into raid design and makes it really fun to do even if gear isn’t really a motivating factor anymore.
I definitely don’t envy Blizzard on this. If raid rewards are too good, you probably aren’t pushing keys unless you raid. I guess the opposite holds true as well. Most raiders need to do keys I’d imagine. I get the impression that m+ rewards are considered when they tune the raids. They get a bit easier every week if your raiders are doing a couple of keys.
1 Like
Welcome to GD.
Where in one thread, I have someone mocking me for “only” being a 3/10 Mythic raider… that I’m not “Mythic enough.”
And in this one, I have a guy trying to stereotype me as someone just wanting “easy gear” … when I’m i220.
gotta love it. lol
1 Like