I will not.
The majority of the game happens below those levels. We can’t have a system that only makes sense at the highest end.
Yes, there’s some subjectivity as to what’s harder than what. That’s fine. It’s on Blizzard to set the equivalencies. If there aren’t any until the highest level, it’s garbage.
Here’s the other thing worth talking about - bricking a 14 and getting a 226 isn’t even really “being an M+ player”. Anyone can do that. It isn’t really an exclusive reward for someone who excels at M+. If you are an M+ only player, your only “exclusive” power rewards for your mode of play are your 220 Valor rewards. Any raider or PvPer can dip his toe in the water and get the best rewards out of M+, whereas all you have to show for your effort beyond that is Valor upgrades, but the reverse is not so easily done. It’s really not a great situation if you consider yourself an M+er.
Continuing on from that, I know people who have 226 BSS who primarily raid while I’m sitting here with two tanks that I play a lot of M+ with and I still haven’t seen a 226 BSS. But it’s clearly the best progression system, right?
We’re not all stuck on 15’s - > there needs to be a better path for people who clear 20+ dungeons. Fewer people are doing 20+ than clearing cutting edge, despite more players running dungeons than raiding. The difficulty curve is there, the reward structure is lacking.
Those of us who only like to run dungeons shouldn’t forever be behind raiders “just because lol it’s always been that way” < - this is seriously flawed thinking.
PvP gearing is already being addressed in next patch, it won’t be viable anymore in PvE.
Yup.
The M+ gearing curve is flat, while raiding curve is linear. People are whining about the flat part of the M+ curve above the raiding curve on the left-hand/low-end side and saying M+ is too high, whereas if you look at mid or high level players, raiding has surpassed M+ noticeably.
Ideally the M+ curve would be less flat. Stuff like Valor rewards are a step in the right direction but there’s still room to improve the M+ system. Time will tell what happens in 9.1.
Then go do mythic raid. Dont ruin it for everyone else lol
I’m not stuck on 15’s either, but it’s significantly easier than raiding and high end pvp. It’s fine the way it is.
You’re running 18’s as a fire mage - you may as well be running 10’s. It’s all relative. You’re on the most busted class in the game for M+ and doing trivial levels for the class. If you’re not the most busted classes in the game 20’s are a serious challenge.
To even do a full round of 20’s on most DPS classes puts them in the world 50-75 for their class. Where if you’re on a mage that doesn’t even get you into the world 2000.
Oh okay! I was under the impression it was just Mythic that wasn’t boosted.
But we can agree your average key runner wasn’t clearing 14s the first couple weeks, nor was your average AoTC guild doing the same.
So let’s break it down and start them off at the same point.
14 weeks of 14 keys for max rewards
14 weeks of clearing H-CN
Running m+ your end up with 56 pieces of 210 gear and 14 pieces of 226 gear
Running H-CN you end up with 35 pieces of 215 ( mix and match 213/220)
Assuming the values are absolute (which they’re not, stupid statistics and probability) being a 15% chance of loot per raid boss, and 40% chance of loot per dungeon run, it would only take 6 weeks (2.5 pieces of loot per week) to be fully decked out in heroic raid gear in all slots as opposed to the 14 to be fully decked out in m+ GV gear.
Less than half the time.
M+ is better, but takes longer. But I would also say due to timing, it makes it more balanced. Not perfect. But balanced.
Given that, I think all rewards from GV should top out at 220. With only a 7 point boost involved instead of a 13+
Heroic raid allows 220 (up from 213) from GV
M14 gives 217 (up from 210) and 15 gives 220 (up from 213)
PvP I don’t do so can’t comment on.
This way everyone ends up on the same footing going into the hardest content, and those pushing beyond are rewarded for it. Glads and mythic raiders. Perhaps add in 226 gear for m+ pushers who break the 20 threshold so not everyone is left out?
If anything they just need to make every path in the game capable of upgrading to a reasonable IL and realize that gearing really doesn’t matter. We just want to play. That’s right, I said it. Even those world questers out there should have a chance to have a good time.
And that could be true, but it doesn’t change anything. Raiding should give the best gear. It’s the most difficult thing to set up and run. Seeing how pvp gear is being changed next patch, it seems that Blizzard agrees. In any case, we can just agree to disagree. It really doesn’t matter what we think lol.
Now that I can agree with - what we think is irrelevant, and Blizzard can give a toss about what anyone but the world 20 think on anything lol
You know what this conversation reminds me of? When PvP gear had welfare gear back in BC. People argued that Blizzard should annihilate PvP gear because the lowest end players could welfare their way to some small amount of gear. And the game suffered for a long time because of that knee-jerk decision until Blizzard reworked the system to proportionally award players for their skill level.
If you want to restructure M+ to more resemble the way the PvP system works right now - heck I’d love that. I’d absolutely love it if we were talking about M+ rating, Valor vendors, infinitely farmable Heroism points that you could use to upgrade Valor-purchased items. You want to take away the welfare stuff and make the system actually reward the effort put in on the higher end, I’m completely game for that kind of a thing. How many high-end M+ers really prefer the welfare / RNG system for loot acquisition? Very few I imagin.e
this is exactly our problem right now. granted my raid group’s the “casual” raiders of our guild, but we used to be a step behind our mythic progression’s… now, we’ll be lucky to get heroic down in time.
I like how you left out how conquest is time gated.
PvP players can’t even buy a single item for the first 4 weeks saving for a weapon.
True, but you can farm conquest in the 1200 bracket wearing that 220 gear, so there’s that.
M+, raids, and pvp need to award equal gear on an equal timeframe. Mutually exclusive, if necessary.
But if they do that, what will they moan and groan about next? Gearing is fine, once you’ve ran the dungeons your BiS can come from and get the gear, Valor takes care of iLvl increases, until you want to push your keys. But, with the sheer stupid amount of Booster guilds/services out there, everyone gets their gear, achieves, and then cries that there is nothing to do…
It’s silly to imply that your reason has to be either one or the other. People can have more than one reason to want to raid at a higher level. The forums don’t represent the majority by any means.
imho PvP via Rated Battlegrounds is more OP.
Not only you can basically get 1 piece a week from the vault, you also passively earn conquest points to buy pieces you’re missing. So you the RNG SIGNIFICANTLY.
And Rated is a teamwork of 10 people, which imho, does make it easier than 5 people imho.
I think you’re the only person who read it as one or the other. That’s what the word “primarily” is there for. Of course nobody raids for exactly one thing. But for many people, gear was the primary reason to raid.
I just finished grinding out the Vicious War Spider mount. I’m not a great PvP’er but I’m average at least. Staying above 1400 to continue getting % towards the mount was work. The highest my rating got was 1550, so I definitely don’t agree that hitting 1800 is easy. The PvP gearing system seems fair. You have to play at a high level for it to be equal to other gearing methods.
Having the Raid slots in the Vault get bonus ilvl similar to the way the Dungeon slots do would be an improvement.
I don’t necessarily think Blizz needs to nerf M+ rewards or change PvP rewards, they just need to improve the rewards from Raiding. Maybe giving some Raid drops a “set bonus style” buff would work. Either that or increase the ilvl of Raid slots in the Vault to be more competitive with M+ slots.
The comparison in difficulty to receive 220 gear in your Vault from killing Heroic Generals & Denathrius is not even close to simply finishing a +10 without timing it for the same 220 gear Vault choice.