I think that’s some really strong hyperbole. Personally, I’ve pugged the first two bosses on mythic, neither of which were as difficult as any given tyrannical dungeon.
I’ll await you to link your cutting edge and gladiator achievement then
No it’s really weak trolling.
I got AOTC before you did so if we’re going to achievement wag I guess I win.
Can you link it?
No? Click my picture, click achievements, click FOS. Done.
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But you said getting gladiator was just as hard as clearing a 14 right? So you have gladiator I’m guessing and you must also have cutting edge since it takes the same “time and effort” as a 14
I said GEARING thru mythic plus, requires the same or MORE effort depending on class, and takes FAR longer. Not clearing 1 dungeon.
I’ll note you retreated from the achievement argument though. Guess you looked and saw i beat you.
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Ah, okay. So you have gladiator right since mythic plus takes so much more effort? If you can’t even get gladiator that already proves it’s more difficult than M+ since you can get equivalent gear without the requisite rating
I think part of the issue is how with so many dungeons, you want certain stats that raid just can’t offer. For example on my mage I want crit haste rings. I want heavier crit as it’s more valuable to frost mage. The only crit haste ring is inerva, and it has a very small amount of crit. This makes me have to turn to mythic + which has 2 crit haste rings that I farmed out since the raid alternatives were just, bad.
Another issue is that raid trinkets are kind of bad. They had to buff all the raid trinkets a bit ago because the dungeon/mythic + trinkets were just better by a mile. Heck, even the divine bell is BIS for some classes, and that’s just a world quest trinket.
Except the raid CAN offer it. It’s often rather notable the stat combinations that are left out. Versatility is thrown on so much raid gear it’s like they WANT to force PVPers in there. And it gets de’ed for most pure raiders.
This is bait right? It’s not even Sunday yet. That being said, you’re wrong.
Meh, I’m not sure if you’ve actually hard focused on targeting certain items from M+ (this post makes me guess OP absolutely has not), but I’ve found on average it has taken around 30 runs per specific item. This is without loot sharing obviously. I personally run in pugs, and the grind has been incredibly taxing.
This is in regard to personally looting a IQD/Phial/Certain weapons etc.
There is a pretty big difference from just grabbing whatever trash drops in your vault each week, and actually having BIS. Lol thanks Blizz for the Ocarina last week winkyface.
In any given dungeon you have AT BEST a 40% chance of getting an item. Given there are 10+ items in every dungeon for you, that means you have at best a 4% chance of getting any one SPECIFIC item, outside of trades.
This is why my 222 druid still wears 194 shoulders. Because shoulders have never dropped for him this entire expansion (so far) I have killed general Kaal in a mythic keystone 66 times, nada.
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KSM is a feat of strength, and yes i have it.
Do you have any real arguments troll?
We all know how ridiculous you are after that normal shriekwing comment. That’s why 22 times as many people have cleared the normal raid in it’s entirety than have KSM.
Edit: Should have quoted him since he deleted it.
I agree. I really do think that attributes to what makes M+ so popular, the ability to pick your stats. A raid only has so many pieces so you can only get a few combinations, however with 8 dungeons it’s very likely the combination you want is out there. Also they need to tune down the amount of vers gear in raid, just adjust boss damage instead of making us stack a boring stat 
The same rewards are boosted for PvP and raiding as well. And it takes 14 weeks to fully gear out at minimum going that route.
People are definitely full clearing heroic CN before they out gear via GV and well before the 14 week mark.
The fact you can constantly run dungeons with no end, yes, FASTEST way to gear. Overturned? Hardly. 213 < Heroic Raid gear.
Edit: it’s actually your 1% mythic/glads that don’t benefit at all from GV
Yup. As someone who started the tier as an M+ only player but who currently raids and M+s, I will tell you that you get way more loot from raiding unless you’re extending.
I will say I pity raiders who hate M+ and are in an extending type situation, but to be honest part of the reason for the extensions happening so early is because of the PvP gear situation (fixed next tier) as well as the lack of raiding meta-progression (also fixed next tier with the new Shards of Domination), and lastly the fact that the Nathria skip implementation is questionable (unrealistic unlock requirements for an actual Mythic progression guild - would be far more feasible to not extend and use skips if the skip was unlocked off let’s say 3 Inerva and 3 Council kills rather than 4 Sludgefist kills).
The rewards AREN’T boosted for raiding just so you know, just PVP.
That’s the real issue here, raid gearing is far too weak.
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Yep.
It’s… more “balanced” than it was in BfA. In BfA both the base drops and the weekly chest were better than anything other than Mythic Raiding, which meant you could no-life M+ over a weekend or two and be fully better-than-Heroic geared just from base drops despite that same thing (minus 5 ilvl) taking literally months from actually Heroic Raiding.
So… now M+ is on a sort of pseudo-lockout. The base drops are now sort of filler drops that can fill gaps you haven’t gotten loot from other sources in yet, but the Weekly reward still gets that gigantic arbitrary ilvl hike and surpasses all forms of equivalent content… except Mythic Raiding.
So even though it’s better than it was, M+ is STILL the thing that’s going to push your gearing forward more than anything else.
Normal & Heroic Raiding have ended up in this intermediary space where you -might- get an upgrade or two somewhere along the way, but it’s going to be a temporary piece that just gets replaced by equivalent levels of Mythic+ in the long-term because of the way the Vault boosts M+ and doesn’t boost anything else.
Personally, throughout, eh, 9ish weeks of Heroic Prog with a somewhat set group (we had roster issues), I only ever had 2 pieces of raid gear equipped at the same time. It’s just not in a good place in the gearing scheme compared to M+. Better than it was, but still bad.
At the end of the day, I’m not sure what sort of solution could be implemented to make these forms of content feel more “even” in terms of gearing without angering a large amount of players who love M+ over Raiding.
The 2 extremes would probably be “Add a lockout to Mythic+” or “Raids drop better loot, period.”
The former could hitchhike on the keystone system – give each keystone 3 charges that persist between upgrades/downgrades. To get loot from an End-of-Dungeon chest. you have to insert your keystone and consume a charge. You’re guaranteed loot, but it’s still RNG based on the dungeon. You can still run dungeons after using all 3 charges, but you can no longer get EoD loot. Trading eligibility would require using a charge. This would probably come with balancing out any Weekly/Vault rewards to match equivalent content, instead of surpassing it.
The latter is pretty simple. Either raids drop higher ilvl than equivalent M+ across the board (again, even out the Vault so you’re getting equal to the highest content you cleared, no arbitrary boosts), or get some other form of bonus that can technically be overcome through RNG – but would be unlikely, like guaranteed gem slots on most/all gear. Basically, imagine the current EoD M+ drops were all there was with no Vault system. Raid drops would just be flat out better. The idea being that you can spam M+, so the content with a lockout should be more rewarding.
But there’s any number of changes you could make, that’s just the 2 obvious sides I could see.
I think Mythic+ is a great system, and a necessary one. Dungeon content being irrelevant after 3 weeks is a colossal waste of dev time, and something like throwing currency into faceroll content doesn’t really fix that, it’s just a band-aid. But I’ve never been happy with the specific implementation of the system that we got, and I know I’m not alone in that.