I really don’t get this mindset of M+ only players that feel they should have access to BIS gear for only engaging in one form content.
WoW has never operated this way, at least for the PVE side of things. I find it just utterly hilarious at some of the entitlement that goes on with M+ only players.
Blizzard never intended for M+ to be the only mode of gameplay for people to engage with in order to cap out your gear. It was supplemental content to the rest of the end game.
I was on that position back then long time ago. It was 10 to 1. It worked for me initially until the guild started to extend it to 2AM. I was almost sleepless becoz I wake up before 6AM for work. I gave up in the end then I discovered GDKP. Then Masterloot was banned in Cata. I came back to Raid when Dungeon Finder for Raid opened in Legion.
8 to 10 is good sched for raid. But WoW is more than Raiding. You have dailies and weeklies too (rep farming and gold farming) to support your end-game and sometimes PvP too. It’s more than 3 hours per day which I cant support anymore. I am just okay with my current Casual schedule aiming either for AoTC or KSM. I have other stuffs in my life other than WoW although WoW is part of my gaming life.
It’s not the raiding per se. It’s the added prep of planning for more arduous fights and the outside of raid farming that’s required to raid at the Mythic level. SL was a bit more relaxed on it, but people are still suffering from the burnout of the Essence/Neck farm of BfA.
SL didn’t help by making the actual raiding more stressful, especially the shortened season of S3 that came out of nowhere, after a really hard raid tier.
Get rid of both and go back to normal and heroic raiding and normal/heroic dungeons, although it would have to make normal more difficult. Then maybe something on a different level with 5 mans that does not reward gear.
Mythic raiding is the Heroic raiding you’re talking about. It’s just a different name because they need 3 difficulties, instead of a mix of player size and difficulty.
Or just keep M+, it’s good content people enjoy more than raiding right now and is more accessible
And only getting worse for you guys.
It worked plenty fine S1 of SL where almost all of the loot M+ players wanted was from dungeons. The raid trinkets were dog-water and at most all anyone needed was a higher ilvl weapon for the most part. We were this close, all we needed was M+ to drop higher ilvl weapons and we would have been there.
DF is going to last 2 years. Perhaps once everything shakes out and Ion’s experiments have failed M+ gearing will be able to be its own thing. Time will tell.
If there is a player base left to reform.
Creation Catalyst week 1 or alternatively, a chance for tier to drop at the end of the dungeon in M+ and no stupid Purple Legendaries inaccessible from the raid would solve it.
It’s really not complicated.
Mythic Raiders loots are not limited to 1x per week like the M+'s Vault. They have 3x ilevel 415/418 loots per week plus vault from raid and vault from M+. Ask Raiimir. Mythic Raiders are the fastest on gearing up… 1x M+ Vault is a joke to them.
This does crack me up btw. People whine about borrowed power but then these purple leggos get added to the game. Nathria was nearly perfect as there was no “Purple Leggos”, no tier sets, no nothing. Just M-ilvl loot, and M-7, and that’s it.
This new itemization guy they got Charizard seems to be straying further from a working formula. Every tier you get people whining they aren’t the ones chosen to get the purple leggo this tier etc.
Mythic raid loot is 424-434, with only the first boss being 424 and then the second starts at 427.
Well, in all fairness the top Havoc DH in the world is asking for better balanced loot too. So if it’s top to bottom of the spectrum of player, I might suggest it’s the game.
It actually drops to 0 loot per week once you get into lockout extension season, which comes earlier and earlier as the tiers get harder and shorter.
Incorrect. Completely incorrect. Kekw.
First 4 bosses 415, 5-6 421, 7-8 424. Final boss weapon 430.
That is the problem Blizzard has been trying to address though. They never intended for M+ to be people’s only mode of content in the game if maxing out your gear was your goal.
I don’t begrudge them one bit for pushing M+ players into raiding. WoW has always been a raid focused MMO, and this narrative by a few M+ zealots on these forums that raiding is outdated and people aren’t interested anymore is just a biased view.
If you got rid of raiding in WoW, this game would probably die off for real.
Raiders make almost all the PVE guides as well as a most of the M+ guides and M+ tools.
I played a MMO that tried to kill off raiding (Lord of the Rings Online) and they backtracked on this fast, because they lost a ton of their more dedicated players that made most of the guides for the game.
ok … but tryhard mythic guilds are done gearing after week 3.
as someone who isn’t interested in m+ (earned a 15 legit once, thought it was super boring, now i pay some dudes for KSM at the end of every season) I hope the gear is upgradeable. My casual AOTC guild doesn’t turn anyone down who wants to raid, so we have some people who really need m+ gear right now to outgear the content so as to make up for the fact that they’re not… super reliable? when it comes to mechanics?
What I would have liked to see is some flex mythic raiding. we have a core number of ppl in my guild who want to try mythic raiding for progression but we just can’t get 20 people together reliably, so must of us get aotc once and then dip for the rest of the season because like, what else is there to work toward? like i appreciate they’re trying to keep the feel of mythic raiding special, but the gear is not the only barrier. 
It’s no secret that right now, M+ invalidates Normal raids completely. 100%. Puff of smoke gone. Heroic raiding holds in there the first few weeks until Valor cap catches up, then it’s GG for that too.
But Mythic raiding remains top dog, so long as your guild doesn’t start extending lockouts and keeps reclearing and maybe doing alt runs.
The imbalance is M+ is more rewarding on the low end, but at the high end, raiding outshines it completely.
and guess what … heroic dungeons invalidate normal dungeons, and mythic dungeons invalidate heroic dungeons. That’s how the game works.
It’s just the bow right that is 430 right? 1 weapon for 1 class and only 2 of its specs?
Or did they add more?