i ain’t the one making dumb decisions like blizz they could of just made raiding more rewarding and left keys alone and none of these posts would be here but here we sit. there’s nothing else to do in the game besides the 2 anyway to keep busy since everyone whined about systems being gone might as well try and force people to do both to keep em occupied cause there’s nothing else and blizz can’t ever put enough content out people eat it up and then sit bored.
Sure sure. It’s not the game dying, it’s other games dying. WoW is fine guys. It’s CoD that lost money.
There usually is but they seem to not have made slide presentations with MAU breakdowns by brand in the last few quarters, because people were starting to point out MAUs were in freefall most likely.
Not many weeks. Every week. Now that half of your template has BIS that comes from M+, the majority of Mythic Raiders will be forced to fill their Vault every week the entire season. Doubly-so if Blizzard reduces tier length down to 6 months.
Let’s not even forget that realistically, many Mythic Raid Players won’t even time 18s the first few weeks. With no tier set bonuses, no power creep, a full new dungeon pool, without having prior-tier Raid and Set Bonuses to lean on, and a seasonal affix that is 100% adversarial, not to mention very likely adjusted scaling, many Mythic Players will probably struggle to get an 18, or more than 1 18 per week. If a season lasts 6 months and Mythic Raiders miss the first couple Vaults for their actual BIS, they could be stuck grinding M+ the entire season and not get their BIS.
Which is essentially what they did. M+ tops out a little bit below the limited ## of slot items available off the very last M end bosses. Same as most of SL. M+ still has great vault, same as SL. Great Vault still has no lockouts, same as SL.
There’s very little different here. They’ve changed the required dungeon level before (used to be 10, then became 15, then I think at one point it went back to 10, then 15 again, although my memory is fuzzy on that).
Are you kidding? If they made raiding more rewarding, the same people would be complaining.
Even with 6 below mythic raid it still turns M+ only players into I am waiting for my weekly chest to get all my mythic level pieces.
If you check armory and achievements, I was almost CE every tier 
(burnt out first tier during Sire prog, joined a more casual group for Sod so we just did up to Sylvanas, and SotFO was the fastest and short tier in a long time). Where’s YOUR mythic raid experience? Oh yeah, you have none 
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I love raiding. I was a CE raider back in the day (It was a little easier back then, to be fair. Garrosh was not the mechanical cluster %^&* that something like mythic jailer is now)
I wish I could still raid, but I can’t. I have a kid, job, and adult obligations that make it really hard for me to dedicate firm weekly hours to raiding.
M+ made it really enjoyable for me, knowing I could still push up to “high level content” and get my character totally geared up. It was still huge a bummer when BiS tanking trinkets dropped in raid, but I could still have fun.
If the M+ gap widens, I still won’t have the kind of schedule that will let me raid. And mythic raiding will still be largely un-puggable. So I feel like decisions are being made to alienate players like me more. Which I really don’t understand at all, since there should be quite a few of us, and we love this game too.
Just get rid of mythic + already.
It really cannot be repeated enough that the loot table of the last couple bosses isn’t that big. You’re not looking at being able to max out that many slots.
Which is how it was for most of Shadowlands. In Sanctum, for example, even if I got every single piece off of Sylvanas & KT (which were the max-ilvl bosses), the only items I could get were chest, belt, ring, legs, shoulders, neck. BUT… my legendary takes up at least one of those, so I’m down to 5 possible upgrades, and the neck was garbage, so I wouldn’t wear it if I got it.
A handful of slots being available at a slightly higher ilvl isn’t a big deal. They could easily take it out and it wouldn’t even matter. People make a mountain out of a molehill, on this.
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Actually it is different. It is worse for Raiders. There used to be Mythic Ilvl, and then a limited amount of Mythic Ilvl +7 items. Any Mythic ilvl was interchangeable. So if you did reclears enough, you might not need to do M+. You probably didn’t do that, but you could.
Now, the majority of Mythic Raid Gear is “Mythic Ilvl - 3”, there’s Mythic Ilvl +3, and Mythic Ilvl +6 gear. You ACTUALLY need to do M+ every week to get better gear, because the majority of the loot you get is outclassed by M+ gear.
Blizzard’s solution to M+ feeling unsatisfied was to make Raiders suffer as much as M+ players. Now both sets of players feel justifiably unhappy if they aren’t doing the others content.
Sanctum had dom sockets. You would use dom gear over non-dom gear. You definitely did NOT just use KT/Syl loot in your BIS template.
If one or the other has to go, Mythic raiding is probably the better choice of cutting content.
But realistically, the better solution is to make M+ and raiding equally rewarding. For raiding, that requires fixing the issue of Raid lock out extensions most Mythic guilds need to start earlier and earlier to even finish the tiers.
Our whole guild is made up of parents and career folks, and we get CE every tier. There are plenty of guilds like that. Look for a team that raids later in the evening (between 8 and 10) and you’ll find plenty of CE parents who raid after their kids are in bed.
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418 is max vault reward of M+ at M+18. It means once per week. It’s similar to current. M+ is not the hardest content of WoW. Mythic Raiding is. M+ is a good stepping stone towards Mythic Raiding. M+ is not Mythic Raiding.
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I get that for some people they can be a parent and still make a consistent schedule. I can’t. Some weeks I’m free Friday, some weeks Tuesday, some weeks I’m not really ever free.
Really difficult to find a guild that can accommodate that for mythic raiding. Really easy to log on and push keys when I can though. Even pugging heroics isn’t a problem. The way mythic raid lockouts work though, mythic raiding just isn’t something I’ll be able to do.
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Not really, happens all the time. That’s why there are more than 20 people on the team, so people can cover for each other.
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I don’t know if mythic raiding has just drastically changed since back in the day, but I’m not aware of any progression guilds that are actively recruiting people with ~20-30% attendance. And if they let me in, they certainly won’t let me raid unless they just can’t fill a roster.
If you found that, know that you’re the exception and not the rule.
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I was 24 when WoW released, so I always had to juggle work, rl responsibilities and family responsibilities with raiding. Most of my raiding career was spent with similar folks that had the same responsibilities.
I don’t get this mindset that has cropped up the last 4 years or so that raiding is this huge time commitment time eater that isn’t worth engaging with if you are trying to live life.
If anything, the addition of M+ and all the silly systems added to the game are probably the real culprits in creating burn out for many players.
If you look at the popularity for raiding in Classic and TBC classic, this how the game needs to operate like.
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My “stepping stone” loot gives me 418 gear while most Mythic Raid loot is 415 (also most raid guilds extend so even if later bosses drop higher ilvl, most Mythic Raid guilds will barely get to enjoy the spoils). Enjoy your loot I guess?
Yeah I was already in my 30’s (and now in my 50’s).
BfA, in particular, almost killed our guild multiple times, because the combo of M+ gearing and AP farming turned WoW into a second job if you wanted to raid. Fortunately AP farming is a thing of the past, but M+ is still a problem.
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Exactly. The barriers to even get our feet in the door to prove ourselves are near impossible to overcome and that’s not that great for people with varied schedules. Keep the difficulty of the fights but change how lockouts work or how the raids are structured to make it more accessible. That is literally all we want is a chance to participate. And those of you who are saying we easily do are delusional.