I don’t care who starts it. What I’m saying is that these conversations are driven by the fact that someone clearly disagrees with the thread, that being mythic raiders since they are the point of contention here. Otherwise, the thread would have faded to obscurity. You simply can’t say that mythic raiders don’t care. This thread’s continued existence is proof that they do.
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So you’re saying raiders in the middle of their prog would have been fine with having their ilvl slashed by 20? I don’t think so.
This thread’s continued existence is because a bunch of false assertions are being presented, and should be corrected. That’s it.
They could set the ilvl of M+ gear to 200,000 and no raiders would care, as long as it didn’t affect raid tuning.
Ah yes, finally someone speaks the truth. This is the mindset of so many M+ players. You guys got a chip on your shoulder about raiding.
Either you don’t have the time for it anymore, or you had bad experiences with in the past.
This idea that raiders are some kind of uniform group of try hards that only raid for the prestige is just another silly take from people that got some weird hangs up about raiding.
I’ve often thought that most M+ only players are actually would like to raid, but probably don’t have the time, skill or social skills in order to be on raid team.
edit: This “raids are bad” argument is as old as these forums really. Game is still chugging along just fine with raiding being the main focus of the game.
We did get our ilvls slashed by 20. That’s what I’m saying. S4 basically slashed everyone’s ilvl by 20, there go enjoy the same raids you used to be competitive in and now need to grind gear again for.
Most raiders would’ve preferred refarming 2 trinkets than removing AotC/CE for sure. S4 with capped 278/285 gear and AotC/CE intact would have been better, for all involved. M+ players would have been free to push right out the gate rather than farm valor in +2s too.
18101 posts … and you think all of us are obsessed?
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I post about lots of things. Clearly my posts about ember court and pet battles are because I’m obsessed with M+ ilvl. 
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For the first time in what, 2 years?
If they didn’t take a few of the dungeons out, Ruby and Changling would have been BiS, yet again.
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And the Hakkar trinket, for tanks. Which was the #1 tanking trinket all expansion.
What a bizarre take - “M+ players would raid if raid content was more like M+ content”.
Yeah, no %%%%. People don’t hate the themes of raid content or the loot thaty drops. They don’t want to commit to the cringe culture of guilds and slumming it for 6-9 hours a week with grey parsers, or whatever else is going on for them.
I literally tried raiding. I bought into Ion’s nonsense. Turns out, M+ is just more fun.
No it wasn’t. It was good in S1 because nothing else existed in S1 and it was good in S3 because SFO had really bad trinket tuning.
It definitely was NOT the best tank trinket in S2.
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Except they absolutely would. I’ve had firsthand experience with mythic raiders getting upset at the notion that mythic raiding would no longer give out the best gear. Gearing has been a hot button topic for quite some time now and mythic raiders are just as much to blame for propagating the situation.
You seem to exist in a bubble that you think is indicative of the rest of the playerbase. You can say for certain that absolutely NO raider would care? So if I were to look up this subject in the WoW forum, I wouldn’t find a single instance in which a raider refuted this notion?
Give me a break.
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Sorry! I forgot that people who don’t raid know way more about raiding than people who do. #1 rule of General Discussion!
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Gee, who to believe, Mythic raiders themselves or you, who has interacted with one once.
Since when are you concerned with all raiders, and not just your tiny little subset of them?
The vast majority of the game by that logic is outside your wheelhouse.
Two specifically Int-trinkets in an expansion that notoriously had weak int trinkets might have been BIS for a few specs… oh the inhumanity.
Lol.
Yeah? Do you raid with the entire WoW community? Have you raided with every single mythic raider and logged mythic guild in the game? The difference between you and I is that I’m not acting like an authority on the subject. I’m telling you that the WoW community is a diverse group of people who share different opinions and I’ve had experience with mythic raiders who literally contradict what you’re saying. You can’t say mythic raiders do not care about this, and your experience with mythic raiding doesn’t make you an authority on the subject matter. It’s that simple.
So are you actually going to make a legitimate argument or are you going to swing your mythic raiding title around because you don’t have any ground to further base your arguments on other than “I’m a mythic raider, trust me bro.”
I already did, you just haven’t bothered to read the thread.
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What’s your point, exactly?
The person I’m replying to was complaining that raid loot was better than M+ for one season, when M+ loot has been more than competitive for the entire rest of the 2 year expansion cycle.
You’re coming in to say “Yeah they were good, cry me a river”
Kinda wierd
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Yep, you fit right into that group that had a bad experience with raiding and now they hate it. You don’t need to raid 6-9 hours per week lol.
I spent years running with a guild that only raided 1-2 hours per week and we cleared quite a bit of content.
Again, if M+ is fun, then why is a few ilevels of gear gap a big deal?
You guys raged about this in the pre-patch for SL when Blizz lowered M+ gear by 3 ilevels. People are still doing M+ to this day.
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Remember when they reduced the amount of vendor trash at the end of runs and M+ players raged like it was armageddon come to azeroth?
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