If gear differences didn’t matter in M+ past a certain point this entire argument wouldn’t matter at all.
Take the FFXIV route. Gear caps off at Heroic endgame. +15s and Heroic Raid give out the same gear, +15 vaults and Heroic raid last couple bosses give out slightly higher than base.
Mythic and M+>15 can then be entirely based on personal pushing with more room to freely itemize by doing the content below that threshold.
Terrible argument, you’re not competing for MDI world first so gear ilvl shouldn’t matter at all if you’re doing it for fun, pushing lower keys with the highest ilvl you can get from mythic+ is the same as pushing slightly higher in slightly higher ilvl raid gear difficulty wise.
I got them on ignore, so I have no idea what they said.
Of course gear matters. How many times have we watched mythic raiders explode at the very notion that they wont receive the best gear in the game.
Then then they act surprised when the tables turn slightly.
Gear in raids matters because the raids are tuned around the gear it drops, mythic+ is not tuned around raid gear, next.
That would be “never”. Nobody I know cares about the ilvl, except as far as the tuning of the raid goes. If Blizzard sould stop tuning the raids so that M+ was presumed (as they’ve done, since Nighthold) then we wouldn’t have a problem.
Infinitely scaling difficulty says hello.
Well this isn’t true. If that were the case then these arguments would never exist.
Obviously SOMEONE cares about them.
Yes and unless you’re pushing MDI, hitting a wall with the best mythic+ gear is the same as hitting a wall with the raid gear in a slightly higher key, you still get the same thing from it.
Okay, remove all gear progression from M+, remove the influence of outside gear, and let me push it with a certain established baseline value. I’m perfectly fine with this, like I’ve said.
Even taking that as an aside… M+ difficulty scaling being tied to player power increases sort of creates this situation, even if it doesn’t impact everybody.
“You don’t agree with me, therefore I am ignoring you”
Mature.
all you raid first people are just worried that if mythic raiding was more accessible to pugs the way it is in ff14, then you wouldn’t be special snowflakes anymore because all your hard earned social capital and connections wouldn’t mean as much. I mean you’d still have tons of friends to talk to and joke around with but there’d be no lording it over the rest of us peasants who only have a few friends that play the game still.
I’m not saying mythic raiding isn’t the hardest pve content in the game it clearly is the hardest that’s a fact. I am just saying is there are a ton more players who could be there doing it and succeeding if it wasn’t locked behind arbitrary social walls. Like servers, guilds and a strict 20 man roster with strict lockouts. Let it be more flexible and let more people attempt the fights. Let the player base improve for gods sake. Mythic plus only strength is it’s lack of barrier to entry. Remove this for raiding and im fine with raid being king and im sure most others would be too.
These threads are all started by M+ folks, they’re the ones with the obsession.
I actually like you’re idea a lot and think that would be best but Blizzard hates good ideas so they will never do such a thing unfortunately.
Okay, so stop gear progression at a Heroic item level for both raiding and M+, tune progression in both based on that, and remove raid gear lockouts.
Fighting the wrong battle.
It’s not Raiders vs Keystoners.
It’s players vs blizzard.
So refarm new trinkets, there’s your gear farm.
Yes it would have been fine. Lots of people rerolled into FotM or out of Uhr dependant classes for S4 anyway and had to refarm gear from ilvl 240-250 anyway. Same gameplay without an ilvl bump.
They should receive the best gear in the game lol. Raiding Mythic raids on a schedule is a lot harder than M+.
This argument against raiding has been debated on these forums since 2004.
People back in vanilla were complaining that WoW was raid or die. The game is so much better now for non-raiders and people are still complaining.
Most WoW players are entitled babies that want max level gear for minimal effort. This is why content like M+ is popular. This is why LFR only raiders are constantly complaining for better rewards. Heck if you gave easy epic rewards for pet battles, people would be lining up for that content even though it is probably one of the most boring systems in the game.
If you want a discussion, saying things like this is not the way to provoke positive discussion, only negative discussion.
Which, judging by your tone, is the entire point.
The game isn’t designed around keys above +15 well soon to be +18 though.
These modes are just gimmicks for players to try to tackle later on in the expansions life cycle. To think that gearing should be designed around for people pushing 20+ keys is just silly.
The idea of having my gear nerfed and having to farm gear to replace my nerfed gear while raiders would get to keep all their stuff is super, super, super toxic.
Is exactly what S4 was anyway. They could have slashed your ilvl by 20 and achieved the same result.
Most raiders used M+ trinkets.