Na it would not have been. It was miserable and people would have quit. There was no system that was progressively nerfing the raid. And blizz waited for nerfs too long.
It’s not fun to raid 2 days showing up knowing you won’t kill the boss or make any meaningful prog that won’t be undone before next weeks raid and you’re just waiting for nerfs to come in.
Sepulcher was a mistake
No, Bloodmallet is a highly tailored specific simulation that almost nobody’s character in reality can use for accurate gear determination. It’s not worth using for anything other than quick guesstimations at best. Simming is always more accurate.
Not to mention reclears were impossible for most guilds who even got CE and even a pain for HOF guilds.
Sofo was miserable. Torture.
But 2 day guilds would have killed Anduin and done Jailer in a 8 month season.
Anduin wasn’t unkillable, it was just a slow grind to overcome the different deadly overlaps. It was just a matter of pulling and pulling until it clicked.
Shortening it to 5 months was the biggest mistake they ever made with raiding. Akin to Crucible of the Storms having its AotC/CE removed as soon as BoD launched, instead of keeping it like ToV that kept its AotC/CE all through nighthold.
Acceptable sacrifice imo.
Don’t think content more people care about should be hamstrung to appease raiders hence this entire topic of discussion. Raiding can die and WoW will live - if M+ dies WoW dies.
You’re making it hard to root for what you want when you can’t consider other people’s positions.
This is why we’ll never get the best of both worlds, because some of you insist on making it a war of the game modes.
S4 M+ would have been fine without a gear grind. Most people who push rating don’t care about the gear aspect of the season that ended at like week 2 anyway.
Is contradicted by this:
and this:
Didn’t SL have the biggest drop in subs post launch though? If M+ was keeping people around, doesn’t this fly in the face of one your comments you made in another thread?
I honestly don’t get you M+ guys at all. You’re actively trying to promote this mindset that the bulk of the playerbase only wants to be M+ players, when reality is so much more complex than that.
It is getting just straight obnoxious seeing these replies calling for the removal of a game mode that has been in the game since 2004.
I’m sorry, but a lot of these takes on how M+ should be positioned in the end game are just straight dumb and delusional.
If you want M+ to be your only form of content in WoW, then have it, but stop spewing this nonsense that everyone wants to play the same way you do.
By the way, I wish you guys would be honest about M+ popularity too. Everyone with a brain understands that M+ is popular because it is 5 man content and the rewards are pretty good.
The fact that you’re arguing over a few ilevels in gearing just proves that you only care about the gear, which is probably the case for like 98% players that engage with M+.
If you truly loved M+, you wouldn’t care about those few ilevels, and please don’t come at me with “I need the higher ilevels to push higher keys past +15”. Blizzard isn’t desiging the game around people pushing these keys to these levels, it is a side activity that only a very very small % of the playerbase engages with.
Edit: You want to push BIS and the limits of gearing then engage with all the PVE content. This has been the way the game has been designed since 2004.
Blizzard is working to change that.
Giving max level rewards to just one type of content is not making a game balanced. It fuelks resentment as we see now. I just can’t understand why the devs insist of doing things that cause social friction in the game. No wonder guild numbers are declining, everyone is made to compete against each other instead of working together.
This is how the game always operated. People like you keep trying to rewrite history here.
My takeaway from all this:
Blizzard is no longer even paying lip service to having three equal pillars of progression.
We have 100% moved back towards world of raid or die.
Find me a quote that they said each pillar would be equal.
You ever seen a roof stay on, with pillars of every size under it?
They don’t, and this one won’t either. That is the problem.
There’s a couple bosses with slightly higher ilvl gear - just like in Shadowlands - and you’re acting like it’s the end of the world.
I’m waiting for that quote, not your silly takes here.
Because it is all about the gear for them. They want equal rewards for only engaging in one form of PVE content.
Adapt or die is the law of the land nowadays. Blizzard is holding on to the old ways and this is why people are fleeing to other games faster and faster. Honestly I give dragonland 45 days before its on sale 50% off. After people see the new class and the nerfs they will go off to play something more fun.
Raid bosses 2-8 give 424-434 ilvl in the first raid.
M+ gives 402 ilvl in the end of chest and 418 in the weekly vault.
If this goes live M+ is no longer end game and is instead mid game content.
You will get gear Equal to Mythic Raiding from the Vault each week if you finish 17/18+
you won’t get the Ilvl of the Last 3 bosses of the Raid tho.
Yet, all the big MMOs on the market make raid content for their games. FF14 raiding is quite popular.