Majority of people can’t do 15s.
I do them, but I’ve never timed them.
I am not sure you understand how M+ works. Killing the boss will not drop that azerite gear.
Let alone tht the 3 weeks of waiting is for the random version. If you want the guaranteed version, its 9 weeks.
Why are you guys complaining about what other people are getting and what other people are doing?
Its literally the equivalent of being pissed off the kid next to you got almonds on his sunday when you have 3 scoops, almonds, chocolate syrup, and a damn cherry on top.
I don’t remember it being as big a deal for the majority of Legion.
M+ wasn’t really the same in Legion.
You didn’t forget keystones, when originally released and for 1/2 the expansion’s lifetime, depleted upon failure right?
You didn’t always have one, and you couldn’t really find a high level one to run as readily as you can today. PuGing during those times was way less popular among people running high level keys. So once you exhausted the ones in your immediate social circle, you were kinda done for the week. Not strictly speaking, but effectively that’s how things played out in the beginning.
Tier sets and Artifacts are probably also a key difference between Legion and BFA. M+ wasn’t capable of providing anything as powerful as some of the tier sets were. I don’t recall it providing great Artifact relics either.
It’s effectiveness throughout Legion was also in flux.
Notably, M+ rewards lagged behind ToV and NH and were only updated long after they had released.
Some patches it capped below Heroic, others it was on par, but this season is really the first in which it’s exceeded that.
It was trivial to find keys in Legion. Even with depletions.
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If you read the post I was talking about the “ease” of getting 475 Azerite in mythic Nylatha…
Because heroic doesn’t have a 475 equivalent like mythic+ does from doing keys (not even timed) that are comparable to heroic (not even close to mythic).
I think that was the point? It vastly overshadows everything but going deep into mythic. The thing that if you spend 10 minutes on WoWprogress will notice most servers have maybe 1 guild that does that outside the 4-5 mega servers?
The 3 methods of getting 475 Azerite are:
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kill mythic raid boss that drops Azerite and hope it drops.
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Get 1800 rated in PvP and hope it drops in your once per week lootbox. This used to be 2100 until season 4. This basically how mythic+ worked at launch until they realized it was a bad idea and fixed it.
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Complete (not time) a mythic+ 10 and buy a targeted slot that is 1 of 6 available every 3 weeks.
One of these is vastly easier than the others…
And everyone leaves out you can buy a 460 Azerite item every week.
And timing is heroic gear at a ratio of 3 items for 5 people. And guaranteed weekly chest item for all 5. And residium for Azerite for all 5.
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Depletion made high level keys rarer than they are today.
Most people didn’t want to run a depleted key for no loot.
And because the difficulty of the affixes from week to week and dungeons (in general) varied pretty wildly a string of failed runs wasn’t unlikely.
I can only speak from my experience, but gearing in Legion through m+ was actually easier for me than in BFA because max loot key levels were actually easier AND 5 pieces from one clear was common place.
As someone who does both. I don’t see any issues with M+ gearing or Raid Gearing. You’re going to gear no matter what, might as well offer different options. I see a lot of M+ who don’t even step into a raid. Also see many raiders who don’t even do M+.
Let people do what they want to do.
Edit: Most gear is biased towards Raiding anyhow as most of my BiS is raid gear. Some M+ gear is absolute garbage.
If you had tier gear/trinkets from raids though…that would still give you the reason to run raids. We have not had/or had much from raids that mattered enough to want to farm things this expansion. The best gear does not come from raids anymore.
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Why doesn’t this argument apply to M+? M+ needs to reward top-level gear or people won’t do it, but when it comes to raids people are supposed to do it purely for the experience?
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No. Stop giving them bad ideas. M+ saved this game.
M+ just needs a weekly cap on how many loot opportunities you get at the end chest.
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I’ve never understood why people get in such a huff about gear. Gear serves one purpose and one purpose only: Allowing us to have fun. Which is also why I don’t understand why people don’t like how other people play the game. If you don’t like playing that way… don’t play that way. But please don’t ruin someone else’s fun because you don’t like playing that way. I don’t like world PvP, but I don’t want to ruin it for those that do.
/facepalm
The entire concept of Mythic+ is one that really perplexes me. I stopped playing in Mists so the closest thing we had was Scenarios I suppose. At any rate, coming in at late 8.2.5 and being shunned despite ilvl and basic common sense of watching videos of dungeons at various key levels, learning affixes that really just aren’t that challenging, and the almighty Raider IO score, I decided to buy into the system and grind it all out.
I went from 0 to 993 so far this season, and when by the grace of our lord and savior tanks/heals let me into a +9 or +10, I am out DPSing everyone with food, flasks, and of course raid gear. I get to the end of it and pull out a super great Haste/Mastery piece of garbage tier item, and immediately trade it off as I have no use for such nonsense. But hey that’s what the weekly chest is for and there’s also the Titan Residuum to buy what I want!
Then the weekly chest pops on Tuesday, my oh my, another haste/mastery piece of gear with some corruption that is completely irrelevant or no corruption at all. Super rewarding.
I understand what was going on when this system was implemented; adding longevity to dungeons and keeping people subbed in a never-ending gear grind. Maybe that’s what the game needs, maybe it’s not. It’s not for me to say. My personal opinion is that if this exists the following things should change:
Heroic/Mythic Raid gear should be better than time trialed nonsense unless it is +15 or higher.
If you leave a Mythic+ group, as in, you click leave party, you are locked out for the entire week and get a -2 key reduction for the following week.
If you legitimately DC, which supposedly Blizzard can tell because they sure can let you rejoin a match in Overwatch zzzzzz, but the key timer is failed there should be a CD applied to sort out your connection before you waste more keys.
And all of this will be negated by people that say: Well why are you pugging keys?
Well because I don’t know 4 other people personally who give a crap enough about this time trialed nonsense despite having joined 3 communities, 2 discord servers aimed at M+, and a guild who will really only run +12’s or higher, which I am obviously inadequately geared for and I have the common sense to not try and hinder their progress while working on my own gear and IO score to maybe get some piece of gear that actually matters like Haste/Vers or Crit/Vers or Crit/Haste which seems to be an actual god damn anomaly and I would probably have better luck farming Ashes of A’lar for the next 20 weeks than getting +2 ilvl at this point at 463 in the same 20 weeks.
Maybe a slight exaggeration, and I know the weekly chest is supposedly going to give options in Shadowlands, but it really seems like something they could have easily added in 8.3 and/or paying an obscene amount of Corrupted Momentos to transfer corruption from crap ilvl items to relevant ilvl items.
I guess that’s about all I have to say, and if you hate raiding, I get it, I hated it too. But I really hate an endless grind for gear that the snobs running Mythic EP still decline you for. Lol, it’s EP. Get real. And maybe that speaks less to the systems and more to the current playerbase. I really am not sure, just find it all to be a joke at this point. Having more fun helping my friend get meta achievements than doing current content. Sad days.
Timing +15’s is the only way that would happen in Legion, right?
2 pieces for completion. |1 for timing. |40% per level above 10. , , 5*.4= 2 |
That or completing a 17?
Wasn’t MDI in Legion run with 17’s? I’d go out on a limb and say timing 15’s was generally not everyone else’s experience with the system in 7.1 / 7.2 for loot that was 5ilvl above the current LFR Raid Tier (and 5ilvl below in the case of LFR KJ)
And going back, to my absolute surprise, in 7.2 the weekly chest was 5ilvl above Normal ToS.
Yeah, M+ in Legion was pretty different.
WoW would be a better RPG if Mythic+ were to never exist. Every dungeon other than mechagon takes the roughly same amount of time, same difficulty, same ilvl rewards etc.
I always find this topic interesting because I know so few people who do M+ because it’s fun. Almost everyone does it once a week because they have to for loot. The people who do enjoy M+ at a very high level just care about being on a level playing field with their competitors, not upgrading their character. Why mix the two?
Well…it wouldn’t because Heroic is an “easier” version of the raid. So naturally it rewards less powerful gear.
This applies for mythic. You’re not getting mythic ny’alotha equivalent gear.
+15’s are stll reasonable difficulty for the gear they reward. Let us not undervalue the difficulty increases that occur as the keys go up.
You don’t need to do 15s for mythic Azerite. You can do untimed 10s (easier than heroic) and buy one every 3 weeks.
And doing 10s for heroic gear, at the given loot per person ratio on top of the weekly chest and residium is so much better for loot than clearing the heroic raid it’s crazy. And there is no lockout. And everyone knows the dungeons because we’ve been doing them for > 1 year so there is minimal learning curve (new affix).
? Extra loot in Legion m+ was just how fast you timed it. Remember when 2 chesting actually meant an extra chest to loot?