At numerous points throughout the expansion groups have settled for drums and still managed to push high keys, although with the strength of Survival Hunter in keys that’s much less necessary now.
Again, a single Warlock covers healthstones and Engineering is so incredibly powerful in M+ that you are literally trolling if you are not an Engineer, and Engineers all have a battle rez. Again, numerous comps throughout the expansion have been able to make no baseline brez work just fine because Engineering covers it just fine. The de-facto push comp last season was Prot Paladin, Frost Mage, Sub Rogue, WW Monk, and Resto Shaman which doesn’t have a brez by default.
Arms is bad in M+ but Fury has pretty consistently been one of the best specs in M+. The stats OP cites are literally useless; Fury’s representation in high keys is actually decently high, at 6 in the top 200 DPS players worldwide. There are numerous Mages, Enhancement Shamans, and Windwalker Monks that also have relatively similar representation among the top 200. Fury also has among the highest burst AoE among the top M+ DPS specs right now, competitive with WW and nearly independent of procs to pull it off. Survival and Destro are much better at sustained AoE, but Fury’s burst AoE is so good that it often gets it killed by ripping aggro at the start of a pull.
M+ favors one damage profile to different degrees. If you look at the individual dungeon data you don’t see that AoE specs are really good at these dungeons and ST specs are good at others. It’s just the degree to which AoE specs do better in all dungeons.
The real problem no will want to hear is the game mechanics allow tanks to do very unrealistic things with super large pulls. They tried to mitigate this with AoE caps and that turned into a disaster and is probably part of the balance problem at this point.
The fix would be balancing AoE damage or limiting tanks ability to kite, hold aggro, and mitigate damage on more than 5 targets at a time.
The issue is the majority of the player base not understanding what damage profiles are or why burst aoe specs are thriving in mplus when steady single target specs are not.
My point is that they can design how long a trash pack lasts, how close it is to other packs that can be gathered, the size of the trash packs, what % per hp you get from the trash, etc.
They could design a dungeon that is a hallway with single target mini bosses + bosses with 1-minute mounted runs between them. A dungeon like this would favor single target damage.
This entire thread is based on a fake premise. The average DPS of a spec is not the DPS of a 280 ilvl player blowing up a M15. The average DPS of the spec, or more accurately the median DPS of the spec, would be the DPS of the 50th percentile player on a M15, which is likely not an ilvl 280 player.
Don’t like perfect get in the way of good. No, this isn’t the perfect data set but many of the trends posted you see in m+. Survival and destro are amazing in m+ while many other spec are not. Outlaw players have been asking for better aoe for a long time now.
More can be done for balance and it should be done. In fact we should be getting weekly tuning. To dail in good balance.
I mean some stuff is common sense, and Blizzard has been using aura buffs here and there. And some things Blizzard does need to do more, like Aff Lock. But the idea that some spec is doing double the damage of another ON AVERAGE is just fake news. What I see, DPS in practical applications ranges from 12k to 18k per player based on player skill, pull sizes, gear level, and class. The absolute weakest players I see in my keys playing meme stuff can still pull 12k which is definitely not “half”. And typically that 12k involves doing decent boss damage but just getting completely roasted on trash.
That’s the other thing, people don’t understand what DPS even is sometimes.
If in some world one spec does double the single target damage of another, but it does 30% less AE damage, it would appear weaker on aggregated DPS but would actually be an M+ god because boss damage is actaully very important in many cases even though the weighting of DPS would suggest it doesn’t. There’s a lot of AE damage and AE damage shows up more on meters which results in a lot of people underestimating boss damage.
The damage difference also seems worse when you watch streamers as well. When you see someone doing double the aoe damage as another class that group has probably agreed that the player doing the damage would use their cooldowns and then next pull another player is going to use their cooldowns.
But there’s without a doubt a gap that is too large and should be addressed.
Well-rounded comp with big AE pumper, a well-rounded DPS, and single-target pumper.
Rogue ends up with low overall damage but brings good value for Tyrannical bosses.
I figure I’ve been around on this forum long enough that perhaps people should stop acting like I’m lying when I say something. If something isn’t true, I’m not going to say its true… I play tons of M+, why would I not want M+ to be better if there really was such a wide gap in practical situations?
First, this is about balance. Not about what can be done. Of course there are players that can do more with less. But this isn’t about that apples to oranges comparison. It’s about how much more some specs have to do because they start with less. Just because it can be done, doesn’t mean it’s balanced.
Not saying you’re lying, Just that your practical situation is seeded with players that can overcome the initial conditions and specs that don’t have to.
I have been very clear with how the data is collected and the methodology used to do so. And I purposefully didn’t propose any conclusions or opinions in the original post.
All I did was present that data.
If you want to call that inflammatory fake news… Well that’s your right and your opinion.
There is NEVER going to be perfect balance because different specs have different damage profiles. Specs like MM and SV will always perform better than BM in a mythic plus scenario.
