You know what’s even more satisfying? Doing 20s and knowing you will be getting access to some of the best loot in the game, not just “from the activity”. 421 gear is best-in-slot for a number of pieces, especially in this raid tier.
If “max possible rewards from the activity” is your goal, Storm Sigils can be farmed to earn the best possible reward from that activity. Heroic can be cleared and earn the best possible rewards from that activity. Heck, one can even say that limiting themselves to 15s, doing 15s reward the best possible reward from doing keys 15 and below.
People on this forum are pretending to put up a hard front against this but the reality is that if you aren’t pushing for anything and don’t need the gear, you will settle for the gear you’re given (if you choose not to “git gud”, which is YOUR option). You didn’t quit when Blizzard took away titanforging, you aren’t going to quit when they reduce the welfare aspects of M+ loot.
The simple solution to this whole drama is to just rise to the challenge. It’s actually not that hard TBH. Just do it. Don’t let your dreams be dreams.
It isnt hard, I could log in and smash some 20s right now(probably not upper because i cant seem to do it at all on tyrannical). I cant log in and smash 20s with the current people I play with. I will now have to put in doubt the work so I can play with my friends, and then go out and pug 20’s to get the reward.
Raids have been a thing since the dawn of wow. We need to go back to raiding being the source for the best gear. Mythic+ was NEVER intended to Replace Raiding but it did. Currently its yeah they have threase great Raids designed and you can go do them or just plit up into two teams of 5 and get better gear. This was NOT what they intended. So now Blizzard has been forced with the task of trying to fix that
Not a fan of this guy but he explained it best. I have it Queued up to where he talks about it. What he says is pretty on Point.
Did you look at the participation numbers for SFO? How did that turn out? Not well.
So what about the people clearing 25s or 30s? Why did the floor need to go from 15 to 20? If the content scales indefinitely, there was going to have to be cap somewhere.
Both of those had the same itemization system, roughly speaking, as CN. The cause for their lack of engagement has nothing to do at all about titanforge vs non-titanforge.
M+ changed, and therefore I can see some need for raiding to change to a degree as well to match. M+ has a slope of increasing rewards for increasing difficulty, whereas the raid had a stair-step function where you would see a sudden sharp increase at the end. The “middle tier” of Mythic Raid loot smooths out a number of issues related to the new M+ itemization and more accurately rewards based on the challenge according to the way the raid is laid out.
No shot in heck Shriekwing or Terragrue are as hard as Council or Painsmith but under the previous paradigm rewarded the same ilvl. Under this new paradigm those two fights in question would be dropping better loot which will feel more accurate to their challenge.
Side-note, I don’t actually know what you’re arguing for. You seem confused as to what you think we should be seeing. I almost get the vibe you’re whining just to whine.
I don’t disagree with you here, HOWEVER…my concern comes in when you factor in that they seem to indicate dungeons will be much harder, as well. I don’t think these two changes are good coming in together.
It’s not going to feel good for most players, and it certainly isn’t going to feel rewarding. I’m not speaking for myself here-- I know I won’t have issue clearing 20s and beyond. I think the average players will feel it, though. Everyone gets to a point where they say, “dang, the reward for this ain’t worth the stress” and just checks out. I feel like these changes will cause a bit of that. I don’t think we need more of that.
They do? Because right now I time 15s and I go “huh, I guess that’s the end of the road”. And I do that for my alt. And I do that for my 2nd alt. And I do that for my 3rd alt. There is never a point in time where I say that 15s are too hard and that’s where the reward caps.
And honestly? It’s fine for people to reach any given ‘natural limit’, healthy actually, as long as the game is played in such a way that people keep inside their “fun zone” and allows them to have the possibility of going further.
The actual concern is that people don’t respect the IO requirements for higher keys, they allow lemmings into these keys, they slog through them, etc. I can see some serious drama in Mythic Raid guilds for instance as guild leaders tell M+ pumpers in their guild to “help their friends” (who they aren’t actually friends with), playing keys with bad players and malding about how unfun the carry is while the carry-player is also malding because their worldview has always been that M+ is easy and not taking it seriously (I already saw this exact situation play out with Conduits in S3, bad players feeling compelled to get 278 conduits but not being strong enough to get there quickly on their own).
Many Mythic Raiders are in for a culture shock I think because they’re used to using M+ to supplement their two-night raid schedule rather than doing reclears for gear and that won’t work in this new paradigm.
I think the vast majority of players beyond that will be fine though. They’ll play in their own fun zone and continue to have meaningful goals for the entirety of a patch which is a GOOD thing (see: Legion popular, WoD not popular - people always want a higher POSSIBLE goal).
Okay. What’s the problem? The M+ change was needed, and therefore the Raiding change was needed for parity.
Me neither. I stated in my post I was not talking about me.
I actually agree with pretty much everything you say, but where I’m coming from is “is this or is this not going to increase frustration-based toxicity in the general population” because I don’t want that.
I also think this, and am ready to be entertained.
Yeah, you don’t have to get it. Just because it’s there doesn’t mean you have to get it or attain it. If you can’t do it, you can’t do it.
Just because there’s Mythic raiding gear doesn’t mean Heroic raiders are entitled to it.
If you’re a KSM Andy, you can keep on being a KSM Andy. I don’t get it. Heroic raiders aren’t salty about Mythic raid gear, why would KSM Andies be salty about +20 gear.
Never link to Bellular. He doesn’t even play the game.
Now they get better rewards from their preferred game mode to clear higher content without having to go all in on Mythic raiding.
How 'bout that. This is a loot buff, ain’t no if and or buts about it.
They won’t be “much” harder. They’ll be slightly harder.
Didn’t know you could see the future, and/or have such faith in Blizzard’s ability to balance.
I’m pretty sure that the increased scaling + Blizzard wanting to “dial back” player power or whatever will have them feeling markedly harder.
Didn’t know you could see the future, and/or have such faith in Blizzard’s ability to balance.
I’m pretty sure that the increased scaling + Blizzard wanting to “dial back” player power or whatever will have them feeling markedly harder.
I’m not concerned with 15-17s, I’m concerned with the compounded effect of all of the changes in the 22-27 range. Like I said though, we’ll see. Neither of us know how it’s going to actually feel.
