M+ changes in DF are bad

About as well as SFO did. Expect massive nerfs. This is such a misguided change. Maybe stop gathering all of your feedback from all of the MDI players/casters Blizz.

Not at all actually. They increased floor pure and simple. Let’s be honest, there is a reason people run 15 and not 14.

This was mostly the tryhards who love M+. Most people did not want this.

What people do want is a fix to GV so that it isn’t still the box of many disappointments. A 4.5% chance (roughly what it works out to when you have 3 chest out of 100 items) is better than the 1% we had in BFA, but still quite awful when you take into account that it takes several hours and a weekly cd.

They could have just as easily done the following.

  1. Fix GV RNG - even 100% deterministic would take 15/16 weeks to fully gear via GV M+.
  2. Make only last boss in raid drop higher ilvl loot.

If we did this in a “typical” WoW season (i.e. 1 tier end boss instead of S4’s 3) you would end up with this:

M+ player is ilvl 304
Raider is ilvl 304-308 ish (depending on how many 311 items you can use off of last boss).

Which is fine.

We don’t need additional ilvl bands in between confusing things.

You better hope your BiS doesn’t drop off of first 3 bosses (especially a weapon), or be ready to have the entire raid tier suck. Mid tier did not need an ilvl rewards. No one stops half way through raid intentionally and certainly not due to ilvl rewards. There is a 14 year precedent for this. You can’t fully gear out your toon with only the first 3 bosses.

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yeah pretty much lol… season one of shadowlands was basically unplayable, as well as season 2… season 3 and 4 were great

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Why are you envious of people who decide to push more than you though ?

You’re getting your same rewards, same as before.

Just because you want a different thing doesn’t mean M+ players don’t also want better gear progression at the high end.

Why stop at 20 then? Why not go 25, 30, 35, 40?

Why are you bitter about people who were getting max ilvl at 15 though?

Just because you want a different thing doesn’t mean any and all players who participated in M+15 to this point want to push to 20 or find M+ at all enjoyable.

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Or get rid of it and put something in that players like.

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Do you want M+ to massively go over Mythic raiding rewards ?

I wasn’t. The max was too low. The same loot is still at 15, we got a whole new tier of gear.

You don’t quite seem to understand what’s going on, even if it’s really simple.

KSM and 15s drop the same loot, aside from GV that got moved up to 16.

Ignore anything above that, it’s not for you.

They don’t have to, their same reward is in a 16.

Why would you push a 20 ? Your baseline Mythic loot is at 16.

Players like M+. Don’t like it, don’t do it.

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delete pvp first.

why do people think Mythic Raiding guilds are showering in loot for the first like 6 weeks lmao. Mythic Raiders spam the living hell out of M+ early in the tier because the amount of raid items we actually get is pretty small. 4 items per boss split among 20 people. First week, most guilds kill around 2 or 3 bosses. That’s ~12 items to split among 25 people, and whether or not the items that drop are actual upgrades is far from guaranteed.

People will be wearing WAY more M+ gear in Mythic Vault than they are Mythic Raid gear for the first ~8 weeks of the raid. The idea you get more loot from raid is nutty. It takes a long time to get full raid BiS - I still don’t have mine and I’ve been doing Fated full clear every single week.

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First 6 weeks with valor cap, Raiding is much more rewarding than M+ sub-Heroic loot.

This change might help with 405s EoD drops, but Heroic and Mythic raids will be your most lucrative source of high end gear in those first 6 weeks.

Why not? What happened to “properly” rewarding difficulty? People can clear 25’s today.

According to you maybe.

I know exactly what is going on. Blizzard didn’t feel comfortable awarding 304 when mythic awards 304. They introduced a new “band of ilvl” for wing bosses at what would functionally be 308 just so they could justify raising the floor of M+ to 20.

Presumably under the pretense that M+ was “too rewarding” despite the fact that you are on a weekly cd for 1 item that pulls from a loot table of 100. Whereas raids are typically 2 items per clear out of a table of around 50, and still contain BiS items (trinkets, stats, weapons - regardless of ilvl).

Considering I can clear 20’s regularly, you may want to speak for yourself.

Except we both know they introduced a new “baseline” in wing boss.

Either way it doesn’t matter - it is too late for feedback. Blizz is going to Blizz.

We all saw how well SFO worked out for them. It will happen again and they will be forced to adjust.

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“the mythic+ community” isn’t just the people struggling to pug 12s. plenty of people are running lower just fine. (it’s easier than upper this week.)

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M+ers need to stop complaining, even raiders need to spam +20 for free loot first week at this point.

I mean I’m all for it. Get ready to deal with Rita whining about ilvl inflation.

According to ever high key pusher that was forced into Mythic raiding for loot to push high keys.

Your 304s are in 16 keys. They’re 415s. Half the bosses in Mythic drop 415.

4/8M bosses drop 415s. That’s the baseline.

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And that is the point.
Not everyone should need to reach +20…
Same as not everyone should need to mythic raid…

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Think about it but you still will. Cuz heaven forbid the raiders have a wee little bit of ilvl greater than the m+ who had a loot extravaganza for xpacs now! The loot trough isn’t as open as it used to be. Dig deep and do some hard content for your gears.

So you don’t think this will go the other way now that raiders will effectively be forced to farm M+, since the ilvls are at or above what they can get in raid? At a much higher difficulty than today.

Also, how does this change anything? If the trinket you need drops off of raid boss, or the raid boss has the better stats, you will still need to go in there (or settle 2nd best item) just like today.

As I said before, you could have just as easily solved this by restricting “high ilvl loot” to the last boss (thus reducing the number of 311 / 421 s folks can equip). Then clean up the GV drop rates that would be an improvement for everybody.

You could add a currency (like dinar) as GV consolation prize. Enough currency and you buy M+ pool item outright. Then you could award the currency at different rates based on M+ difficulty, scaling as high as you want.

There was no need to add a further mid-point ilvl of raid gear, nor raise the floor to 20 for highest m+ reward.

As it stands the GV will still suck whether you are clearing 15s or 20s. Now, you will be very disappointed with your loot drops depending where in raid it shows up (e.g. 1-3, mid, last boss).

These are all unforced errors.

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I guarantee you when the raid drops, for the first 6 weeks I will have more non-raid gear equipped than raid gear.

If I remember I’ll even come back here and prove it. I’m in a US~50-75 guild, which is quite a bit higher than the average guild that steps into Mythic (which means drop rates will favor M+ even more for the majority)

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I mean at some point, we have to come to terms that M+ EoD loot is the new “ready for raid”.

The same way you would farm out a full set of dungeon loot before entering S1 raid in xpacs prior to M+. Maybe sprinkle in 1 crafted gear item if the current xpac meta has one (e.g. BFA). Even a rep item (I think back in MoP).

This will e true regardless of whether the M+ EoD floor is 10, 15, 20, 40 (assuming it is at all possible). Which is why I don’t think the floor needs/should be some super high number.

No.

421s aren’t 311s. 424s are.

421s are mid way.

HFC had more loot tiers than this, this isn’t a new concept.

Hurts no one.

421 great vault is pretty great. Just step up your game.

Sounds like you need a better guild that full clears Heroic week 1 or 2.

They literally do this today. IQD as an example.

That doesn’t make it a “good” concept. Presumably we abandoned this for a reason.

Same could be said for the current system.

Not necessary, I will already be there. I can look beyond just what is beneficial for me though. Try it.

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