M+ changes in DF are bad

I think you missed the part where I said that the difficulty would be “new”.

So in effect, current Heroic raiders would not only have a harder time with Heroic in DF and have to work harder for the same rewards, but they would have to accept being two iLvl tiers inferior because the theoretical Heroic+ and Mythic would be above them.

The point is that players like knowing that they are getting the max possible iLvl rewards from any given activity. Heroic raiders can safely stop at Heroic, knowing that Mythic is on a whole other level of difficulty, but what if they were never really done with Heroic and there were a higher tuned version out of reach for most raiders?

This is why M+ keys of exactly +15 are the most popular.

This is why people didn’t stop at Layer 7 of Torghast when the overtuned Layer 8 was first released. They kept attempting and failing Layer 8 for the max possible weekly rewards until Blizzard had to nerf the difficulty.

Raiders have gotten preferential treatment for years now, and may have a hard time understanding what it’s like to have the rug pulled out from under them because elitists keep saying that their rewards are too good for their preferred content.

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This is the biggest issue. Not only has the ceiling been raised for max possible rewards from M+, but the bar has been raised for +15s.

This may have the adverse effect of Mythic raiders feeling like they need to do +20s and key pushers feeling like they need to do Mythic raiding.

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I feel for those who won’t be able to do their preferred key level anymore because it got buffed. For me I was excited to see better loot for 20s until I saw they were buffing 20s, lol. My best is a 22 slightly over timer so I don’t know that I’ll be able to really farm them for gear should I play Dragonflight.

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I can say that playing a meta spec will become even more of necessity for getting into groups

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Do u know how Incarn + UFR work? It basically makes Necrotic non-existent during the duration. You can do insane pulls as Guardian with that combo.

Not that I doubt your skill or anything, but key pushers who have until now thought that +20s were a good level of challenge are going to have a rough time in DF—unless base Mythic Zero dungeons are numerically undertuned to make up for the eventual spike in numerical scaling.

You only get 1 Mythic raiding iLvl item per week, and RNG has it that you won’t be guaranteed an upgrade on the third or fourth Vault onward (due to duplicate slots appearing in the same Vault or subsequent Vaults). Players who want to do M+ alone are going to have a rougher, longer season to achieve the same results, unless they do Mythic raiding as well.

This is nothing but a ham-fisted attempt by devs to buff the underperformer (raids) and nerf the overperformer (M+).

Yes. I will never forget how Hunters and Warlocks got free passes into M+ groups in Season 4, and how Guardian Druids were nearly a requirement for high rated flag-carry BGs.

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UFR ignored necrotic, it absolutely was a tool in your kit. every three minutes, laugh at 99 stacks while spamming thrash. good times.

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Now we just need to DELETE explosive, bolstering, sanguine, and we’re GOLDEN

Spiteful shouldn’t scale with key level. Change that PLEASE

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Yes bears are un-killable during incarn, especially when paired with ravenous frenzy… but that is only once every three minutes (which is why bears are bottom tier tanks).

I didn’t know that ursoc fury remembered ignores necrotic stacks but I never really played this Druid much. Just did my 20s for the portals and went along my day.

Anyways, I still had to deal with necrotic during pulls without incarn and never had an issue with it.

I did mage tower guardian challenge and thought fel bear looked cool so I tried it out, didn’t like it much lol

I much prefer my other tanks.

Either way, I never had issues dealing with necrotic on any tank so I feel as though it should still remain in the game.

Sanguine has to go, I agree.

Bolstering needs to be dealt with properly: small slimes before second boss of workshop that bolster the other two big elites they pull with, not ok. Other than that, bolstering is fine imo (especially since they basically nerfed it to the ground by allowing bolstering stacks to expire).

Explosive is fine, just need tank and dps to lend a hand and not expect the healer to handle it all.

As soon as i hot keyed shadow word pain explosive got real easy.

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This is a good thing. This evens out the playing field more than it is now where anything below Heroic Raid is pointless because of how easy +15s are.

Why are we crying about 2%? Scaling has become extremely soft and it really needs a bump.

And that’s fine, not everyone get’s Mythic level gear from Raids or the Highest Ilvl from Rated PvP, it should be the same in M+.

You want the max ilvl possible, then push for it.

Because it turns 15’s into 18’s

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Difficulty is relative. Gear, ability scaling, ect will all impact how it feels. You can’t just go based off of numbers without context.

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i think m+ fanatics are going to enjoy season 1 much more than you fear mongers expect.

some ppl like the challenge to climb into higher and higher keys and rating - and are simultaneously bored to the easy mode world quests and the open world story

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yeah 16s in DF season 1 will award the same level of loot as 15s in Slands (baseline mythic raid gear).

And the tuning? idk, we havent seen what classes can really do yet… An example is that brewmasters have access to both bonedust brew and weapons of order and stormstout’s last keg…Windwalkers also get access to faeline stomp and bone dust brew and invoker’s delight… classes can literally have double covenants with current legendaries added in to the spec.

I think it will more or less be the same difficulty as we’ve always had.

although i will say that thundering seems like an obnoxious affix that is trivial for full ranged groups and obnoxious for melee heavy groups.

first weeks of s1 tuning can be rough but like you said players are very much excited to test out the new talent combinations on m+. maybe not too thrilled about thundering

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Only thing I don’t like is the difficulty increase. Never timed a 20 before, that woulda been enough of a challenge without 20’s being made like current 23’s

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I’m sure the Blizzard mantra that they have chanted to open all meetings for more than a decade is “Nobody would leave the game over this. And if they do, we don’t need them.” And more recently, “If too many people leave over this, we can fix it in a year or two and they’ll all come back.”

They’ve been saying this for a decade, during which the population has continued to fall. Yes, making mythic+ harder will result in less participation. If you’ve got a link to support your claim that people being forced out of the game were incorrectly looking for entertainment when they bought an entertainment product marketed to them with claims it would be entertaining, I’d like to see that source.

In fact, participation will most of all drop at the entry level, so future participation will be cannibalized for this experiment. No, noobs won’t buy carries, they’ll just leave because they are not invested.

Wut? What exactly did Monty Hall haul?

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No, you are bad.