So don’t. Keep doing what you’re doing right now and you’ll get the same rewards you get right now.
That sums up a lot of posts on GD actually.
The new scaling is only at 11+.
Entry level players see no changes.
Bunch of assumptions, zero proof, and you stereotype left and right. Why should anyone take you seriously?
I buy my KSM mounts and don’t care about the gear for what it’s worth. I don’t have to care about the gear to see that KSM is going to be harder in DF S1 due to 1) increased scaling, 2) lower GV ilvl, and 3) S1 in a new xpac is brutal compared to S3/S4 of the previous xpac.
The pre-SL weekly chest of disappointment was dreadful for M+ players. Then came along the GV. More options. Yes, I can see your point in how it helped to “cannibalize” raiding.
I don’t think the proper solution is to make a game mode feel worse for groups of players to try to push them elsewhere. That doesn’t feel good at all. Raiding is already a major pain for a lot of people. Scheduling, guilds, etc. It’s really easy for some, and really hard for others.
Raiding could’ve been made more attractive by being on par with M+ in the GV. That is, completing x difficulty raid bosses would give you x+1 difficulty loot in the GV. I never understood why heroic raid kills=heroic GV loot when that paradigm didn’t hold true for M+ (and it still won’t in DF).
Do you think this is solely the result of the ilvl on gear?
- Not the shorter duration (20-40 min dungeon vs. 3 hr raid night)
- 5 player instead of 20 man raid team
- less need for hyper coordination
- no need for fixed schedules
None of these attributes are changing.
Now a +20 will put you closer to CE raid ilvl than ever before, so this will stop “cannibalizing raids” how exactly? Wouldn’t it get worse by that logic (over-rewarding)?
Why should it ?
The goal is that players who don’t really want to raid shouldn’t feel forced to get into Mythic raiding just to have the tools needed to do their preferred content.
The goal isn’t to get more people to raid at all.
No I’m not going to just blindly accept your stance as the default correct one just because you say it is. Absolutely there are people who hate anything mythic+ and would see it all burned to the ground and back to the good old days of raid or die. There are people who would delete LFR and cross realm groups so guilds regained their prominence and became the defacto way people got into endgame (including sucking up to their GM/officers who now wield power over them).
You admit it yourself that you want to be able to pull ahead. You care what they get because if you didn’t care, it wouldn’t matter to you if +15 was still the top tier. It’s not “just” about having a challenge, you want…perhaps even need others to NOT have what you’ll get. You see yourself as better than them so thus you deserve to have gear/power they don’t have.
I see the changes as good-ish but just more evidence that Blizzard cares far more about catering and placating their rounding error number of players at the top at the actual expense of those beneath them. I would have valor be the universal PvE gear upgrade currency and just make harder tiers of content give more of it and stronger baseline items and let people play and upgrade their gear at whatever pace they want. Your precious mountain would still be there for you to fight against.
I think far more people care that they now have to do more work for the same reward and are “malding” at that rather than actually attacking anyone ability to push beyond. You’re just taking it like that because, deep down, you want a distinct gear/power difference and are pleased Blizzard is giving it. No different really than raiders who want to keep tier and select powerful items like trinkets/weapons exclusive to raids since many/most feel mythic+, no matter what, will always be beneath raiding in prestige and worthiness to their “struggle”.
5 Likes
On a side note, I decided to look up BFA KSM achievement acquisition% on wowhead since those had no additional rewards or anything tied to them (except S4), other than the achievement themselves (and of course those who pushed IO), and the results:
BFA S1: <1%
BFA S2: 2%
BFA S3: 3%
BFA S4 (where mounts started to get rewarded for KSM): 15%
Quite interesting.
5 Likes
Don’t like it, don’t do it.
Same as we tell the LFR haters.
How is that changing?
Do you really think M+ will be itemized such that all BiS comes solely from M+ for those of them that don’t raid? That isn’t the case today.
Messing with ilvls will not inherently make it so your BiS exclusively comes from M+.
Yes!
Have you missed the news ? You now get vastly improved ilvl gear in 20 keys.
It’ll be much closer.
Never link Bloodmallet. Ever. Like nothing depicts you more as a noob than thinking Bloodmallet is a source of anything.
There are a probably a dozen contributing factors in raids declining in popularity.
Such as:
part of the aging player base can no longer commit to a schedule
generational differences in introversion
raiding is fairly antiquated
the community and it’s perception
guild leadership being mostly people who have no business leading anyone ever.
and so on
1 Like
Just took a peek at the changes, and yeah, people will be even more incentivized to play meta classes/specs now lol
1 Like
Is this a joke? ilvl isn’t the only thing that determines if an item is BiS.
It could be as simple as you need stat a/b, but M+ only has 3 other combos save for that one.
2 Likes
That’s what I felt reading your entire post where you linked Bloodmallet is a source of what trinkets to use. 
Oh yeah, those 415 gloves are so much better than 421 gloves because of that extra 2 crit at the cost of 20 mastery. Even if they sim worse ST and AoE. ilvl isn’t king! You can’t force me to use dirty 421s!
Why would I spare you that? That matters. KSM Andy getting mythic shriekwing tier loot in both cases. Just because there are additional rewards tiers in M+ and Raiding doesn’t mean your gear is worse than what you have been getting and/or would be getting.
This is where the entitlement comes into play. You’re not happy getting what you got. You want other people to not get more.
I admit I want a mountain to climb that feels rewarding to climb. WoW is an RPG. You gear up, get better and stronger, take on more challenging content, overcome a satisfying encounter and receive rewards based on that challenge. That is the mountain. You climb and climb and then, only near the very top of the mountain, do you compete in the domain of prestige (see: HoF, see: Rank 1 PvP).
Blizzard is bringing the M+ mountain in line with the Raiding and PvP mountains / pillars.
Look at humanbeak in this thread. Malding that the ilvl is less than the best possible rewards rather than malding about any increase in difficulty.
Like, if you wanted to form an argument at all, you wouldn’t even once, even a single time say anything about keys beyond 15. But we see it in this thread. These people aren’t focused on the changes to difficulty for 15s, they’re focused on the increased rewards for 20s. That’s where the jealously comes in. It’s 100% obvious what the Andys are actually mad about and it isn’t any sort of increase in difficulty in weekly15noleavers.
1 Like
Ok, well now your settling for gear that isn’t BiS then.
Which means you can do that today when most of the mythic raid is also dropping the same ilvl as GV (+15).
Yet you still feel “forced to raid”.
The delta matters.
Oh?
Hmm…
Reading is hard.
So is every Heroic raider ever in the history of raiding since WoD.
It’s ok to not have the best gear. What’s not ok is for content much harder than Mythic raiding to not have some comparable reward structure to Mythic raiding.
DF is fixing that.