Depends on how they’re being compared. Hero range keys are gonna be significantly harder than people scooping up their CE 4 months after the good players killed the content.
That’s not entirely how that works. Sure, every time that item goes to someone else in the raid, it increases the odds that you get the next one. But the problem is, that assumes that the next one will drop. Depending on the item, it very well might not.
That wouldn’t work anyway, because that’s not how m+ is designed. Raids are binary, pass or fail. M+ is a a spectrum. A matrix of timer, key level, and affixes.
The two are just not comparable.
Nah. Especially if people no-life it during “push weeks” and just cry on the forums otherwise about how affixes are so unfair, like most of the Ego Score crowd.
I agree, but that’s irrelevant to my point. The goal is to make it fair.
That’s the entire premise behind my post…
What do you get for your crests after week 4 again? Oh right, nothing.
Oh, definitely. Keys and their cutoff continue to scale up forever and raids get repeatedly nerfed.
Then there’s the parsers and the raider tagalongs that people do keys to avoid. 
If you’re looking at Aspects crests, you could be in on every kill from a guild that’s on pace to get hall of fame, and still not have hit the week 1 cap.
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We must be playing a different game. 10/15 slots are filled by raid items…
You’re assuming that everyone is on the whole “everything is 441 in a few weeks” path. Which is a path that requires spamming M+.
Again… M+ > everything else. That’s why the game needs balancing.
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You’re not wrong, but the goal here is to discuss way to make loot distribution more fair. If they don’t change anything, I’m fine with that as well since I personally believe both systems work together. I can see why those who only raid are annoyed though, which is why I’m discussing the ideal change if they do change it.
That’s the same for the vault. except you get a roll of the dice every time the boss drops and when the vault opens.
I do like Brewas idea of having your highest timed key every week give you an additional drop on top of the vault for loot, though. Let me run a +20 HoI for a chance at a 447 fragment every week in addition to the vault.
It’s certainly a more appealing format than raiding, at least for most people. Again, can also dodge all the friends/family that often regrettably come with guilds.
i love that you dont take into account player capabilities…
ROFL
Completely useless thread.
EDIT: i personally know players who can do more damage with completely trash green gear that the most geared gold paying casual. I’ve actually have had shocking experiences as a raid leader with insane players playing fresh toons. As i said, this thread is useless.
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The game should not be designed around players that intentionally skip 70% of max level content.
People do both. Let people do both.
M+ is faster for early season gearing. Raids are essential for late season gearing.
None of the ideas presented by this crowd go any further than “make m+ worse so I can raid log without feeling like I left something on the table”.
Every twisted justification for it just burns my blood.
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No.
You need to go outside. The game is going to reward those that out more effort over those that don’t.
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I’m thinking that we heavily encourage PvP for raiders again. 
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Raiding requires massive fixing, it’s a 20-year-old system that Blizzard doesn’t give a damn about and refuses to fix.
- A better skip system.
- No more spreadsheet bosses.
- Flex-scaling Mythic.
- Less trash.
- Double/triple loot drop rate to bring it on par with M+ on a per-person/time basis.
- Remove the raid lockout to address the M+/raid lockout disparity.
And that’s just the short list.
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That’s true. But only the first 20 or so are useful. After that, it’s just bag clutter.