Two bosses drop 447 and two more drop higher 450 ilvl loot that is better than anything else obtainable in the game. The gap between m+ and Mythic raid is less than it was in Shadowlands but it’s definitely still there.
But you know who gets left out of this convo: The majority of players who do this content and aren’t doing 20+ keys or mythic raid.
m+ been massive part of endgame since the very first day in Legion
And it will never go away, because too many people actually enjoy it, some even more than raiding.
I don’t do +20 keys or mythic raid, but I don’t like M+ either. Last season I only did it for vault to get some 411-415’s (sometimes I did a +15 key, other times a +16 key) just to have an easier time with H Raz.
This season i’m spamming 11’s for Wyrms and debating if I care enough to do a +16 for aspects to get my gear 441, or just leave it at 437 because the thought of doing +16’s is really blah for me. I just want to get my AOTC’s with my 3 different raiding teams
People don’t enjoy M+, though, just look at the CONSTANT huge threads of people who do M+ and seem to hate everything about it.
People love free loot, sure, but that’s the only thing that makes M+ “popular”.
Exactly. If M+ vault loot was lower it would certainly help raiders feel less pressure to run it.
ETA: Right now to get a HERO track heroic piece in vault, all you need is a +8 - like what a joke.
+8’s are cakes. All my alts can do a +8
forum is not representative of an actual population. People come here specifially to complain and those who are happy - just playing the game.
At any time of the day there’s hundreds m+ groups
Jokes on them, M+ gear currently out-paces PvP gear for many slots in the early season. Get Crafted gear to 447 PvE/450 PvP, use conquest on weapons/trinkets, get M+ gear to 437/441 for everything else until you fill out the rest with conquest.
Oh it’s not just the forum, it’s reddit, it’s twitter, it’s streamers nannering on about how affixes should buff and heal players instead of make things harder, etc. etc. etc.
Or do you think Blizzard stopped doing seasonal affixes just because they felt like it?
It’s not even the vault. It’s the eod items you can law of large numbers force to drop for you in early weeks, and how valuable aspects/wyrms crests are this early.
killed 15 heroic raid bosses, got zero items, without m+ i wouldn’t even be able to gear with my luck
Are you just pugging? Because most guilds have some sort of system to share loot. I get on average 1-2 pieces a week from raid.
Yea except I’m talking about people who do both, try to not be condescending when you clearly ignore other things. It is a horrible idea to have the gear not work because most pve players do BOTH. There is a reason pvp has gear changed to scale up and had ilvl reduced comparatively in pve and NOT m+.
You can read what blizz said about it at the time as they view it as PVE players, not raiders and m+ players.
If you cap Wyrm and Aspect Crests this week, you won’t need any more crests for the rest of the season except for changing 441 Hero gear to 447 Crafted gear
Which is why they need to triple the amount of loot that drops in raids. Heck, it needs to DOUBLE just to bring it on par per-person with M+ dungeons, and that’s not even taking the lockout into account.
Raiding rewards are pathetic, no question about it.
Which requires doing M+. Let’s not leave that out.
I’m all on board for increasing raid loot, way better idea than m+ gear not working at all. Raids being more lucrative is better than ruining other game modes.
But how many truly, truly want to do both? Because I know tons of people who wouldn’t do M+ if M+ was changed to not give such an advantage to raiders. Like they’d choose not to do M+ because gearing is the only reason they do it, not for any sense of enjoyment. It’s a chore like how Tor’ghast was to them and myself.
Almost none, I’d wager.
There’s been solutions to this brought up. I think a good one would be to have m+ scale up in m+. I don’t think this is a bad idea and as an m+ player I wouldn’t mind it. The productive thing to do definitely isn’t to advocate for making m+ gear useless.
Most people who do high keys aren’t doing it for gear anyways, and I doubt the same could be said for mythic raid.
Almost everyone I know enjoys both, I think there is something to be said for raid dropping more crest fragments though, I think if raid capped you on the frag type for the week that would be great.