M+ came to the game in Legion lol.
Yeah i had Warlords and BFA switched in my mind for whatever reasons.
I still don’t see how both populations even overlap though.
In BFA, M+ gear dominated arena and BGs
You think so? I thought the entire heroic raid just kinda fell over. Sark was a super easy last boss on heroic, comparatively.
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Didn’t play then so didn’t know but obviously they fixed that problem a while ago so why bring it up now?
Major difference between infinitely farming raid and M+.
The fastest Heroic Kazzara kills are around 2 minutes, but let’s round to 2:30 to better account for the average player’s skill.
at 2:30 per kill, that’s 24 kills per hour; I don’t know how items per boss scales with number of participants, but the Normal kills I did this week seemed to drop around 4 per boss.
Let’s say you can then kill the boss 20 times in one hour, that’s 80 pieces of loot. Now, barring some bad rng, every player in that group is going to have what they need from that boss from the one hour of farming kills.
Let’s say your average M+ run is 20 minutes; you get 2 pieces of loot from each end of dungeon chests. That’s then 6 pieces of loot an hour, most of which will probably be garbage like any M+ trinket, back, or neck.
They aren’t the same, at all. Not all boss kills will be 2:30 of course but I just skimmed through WCL and a lot of them seem to be around the 3-4 minute mark, which would still provide astronomically more loot than M+ for a given period of time.
Not to mentioned that if the bosses drop bad loot, you can just clear to the ones that drop good loot and kill them over and over; you have to farm the same M+ dungeons over and over, which maintain their chances of giving you the same terrible loot over and over.
Can’t really help you there, but that’s why raiding is bad content. Once you have killed Heroic Sark once, you have done it a thousand times, and it literally only gets easier each time you do it.
It’s also why I really don’t like how they haven’t reintroduced a system like Dinars yet; every Ashkandur or Bomb trinket or other pieces of really good loot that goes to a raid logger that quits after AOTC is such a waste. You don’t know what level M+ key you as a player are capable of until you have max level BIS gear and hence gear is removed from the equation, leaving only skill.
I found it more difficult than Rasz IMO
Atleast from a mechanic perspective
My guild is a Team B raid guild, and sit with the same progression.
I got many thoughts but the biggest one is raid fights need to give loot to 40% of the participants just like M+. In M+ 2 out of 5 people get loot, in raids it’s 1 out of 5. Fix that and it will make the lives better for your raid loggers and mine.
I’m sorry but the crest system is really good and I like the upgrade paths.
Boost raid loot drops to match M+!!!
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Because the poster above was pointing out how M+ is killing raiding, just like it did for PVP in BFA.
You M+ bros need to get a clue as to what this single system is doing to the game. There is just way too much emphasis being put on spamming 8 dungeons over and over again as a means to keep players engaged.
The novelty of M+ is wearing off, the game needs to pivot back to its roots.
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Why does group C have to enter heroic in the first month?
I’d guess a full raid playing properly is going to take about a 420ilvl to clear heroic, if all you’re doing is normal its probably at least a month or two of clears before heroic is doable then.
Heroic existing is just a mundane way of justifying more armor tints. The fights in reality should be scaled closer between normal and heroic, its not like clearing heroic is really an accomplishment for people who are organized and tryhard, its now just the bare minimum since normal is basically lfr+ for the casual guilds.
how do you mute threads?
Pretty sure dungeon crawling is its roots. It came even before raiding or instanced PvP was a thing.
You guys can have your raiding simulator back if you want, i’ll gladly just go do something else. Got GW2 to play as a waiting room for the Riot MMO.
I’m playing WoW right now cause i genuinely enjoy how it currently works. Revert it to whatever it was in the past 4 expansions and i’m gone and i have a strong feeling i wouldn’t be alone.
M+ is not dungeon crawling by any stretch of the imagination.
It is was a system developed to turn WoW dungeons into some kind lame e-sport.
How is spamming the game 8 dungeons over and over any better?
If M+ was as popular as you guys think it was, I think we would be getting way more dungeon content rather than just 8 at launch and 1 mega dungeon.
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You should probably leave tbh.
M+ mindset is what ruined this game in the first place.
M+ when Raid gave better loot : “Why do i have to raid i only want to M+ Blizz better cater to me or i’ll play GW2”.
M+ when M+ gave better loot: “If you play a game for the loot, the problem is you”.
This is the common bait used by M+ players, dont fall for it.
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You sound like the kind of person i’ll always do the opposite of what they want :).
Its interesting to see the raid logger mindset though who would be more than happy for the game to shrivel if they can get what THEY personally want.
Already more interactive than doing the same one raid over and over.
Besides, millions upon millions of M+ runs being ran every season on top of M+ being the most popular activity in pretty much every poll seem to indicate it is in fact popular.
If raiders want to raid 7 nights a week, let them.
If m+ want to have BiS weapons and trinkets, let them.
I say we close the gap.
Remove the lockouts from raids, and have the great vault let you get one choice for every 3 timed dungeons. More play = more power. Directly linear.
This topic crops up every season, raiders are mad in the early season, m+ players are mad in late season. Let’s meet in the middle and let the No-lifers pee on the dad-gamers.
Wouldn’t be agains’t it but it would require for the really powerful stuff like the Screaming Dragonscale and the role call trinkets to be much rarer than they are now simply to avoid having literally everyone running with the same gear week 1.
You pinpoint what makes a successful raid and what doesn’t: putting in the time to have the gear and skill available for a team-orientated environment.
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I doubt it. I don’t think it would really change all that much, tbh. People who just want to raid don’t do anything else are a vanishingly small minority. Flexible groups, smaller scale content is the future.
Or you can just stop crying when all of your loot is 200x better than any other content.
Deep down you know this, you’re just protecting your free loot.
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