Yea I can see that, I’ll retract my statement about only glad loses.
I just don’t think losing arena matches and bricking your key is apples to apples. In arena, you can que up again and get more attempts. And the big difference is the games are somewhat similar in execution between matches…
In mythic+ the time it takes to get a 2nd attempt just feels way too punishing… And most of the time when you’re playing the game you’re playing a key that doesn’t matter/you don’t learn much from.
It’s like when you lose your 1750 rated match, having to go back and play with the 1200s… the matches just wouldn’t be the same, and it would be a zzz fest.
Have you and your group considered practicing on PTR before running your keys? I’ve never broken 3k rating before but get kSH most seasons so correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve heard some of the pro groups will basically run their key on PTR over and over to practice before ultimately going on retail and executing. Again I could be really off the mark suggesting this so I apologize in advance.
Well it only takes raid teams about 1/2 hrs out of their week to get back to the boss they are progging – except the last 2 bosses, sometimes that takes 1 full night of reprog. Also raid teams have the choice to save their lockouts and start back at the boss they were progging, its just that no one does that because the rewards are too good.
Unless they changed that. But even if they did, the time sink isn’t 1:1.
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Also there is no reason not to have a system that is enjoyable to play never work. “It’s always going to suck” is not the mentality that I’d like to have.
Not a bad recommendation - I think most folks just have the attitude of "why should I have to go to another game, to play the game that I want to play.
I’m only 3250 – thats the casual tryhard bracket I think… I definitely bet some of the pro’s do that. But around 3100-3400 it’s not too common. Alot of the times we just have 4/5 players, and doubtful we’d find a fill on PTR.
Good recommendation though, wish they had something like that in the main game.
I think Ops argument is that 15/16s are incredibly rare to find listed and even then they may only have one spot and they want a meta class which isn’t unexpected at that key range.
I mean this is definitely not true. World first keys have always been completed by teams sure. But not title keys. Lots of folks pug title keys. Or they pug 1/2 people.
A better system for titled players would be – everyone just has a leveled keystone (no dungeon associated) that you can just put into a dungeon to make the m+ that level. No more randomness would really cut down on, imo, wasted time fishing for the keys you need.
That would be a start, but I don’t see how that would help everyone else, unless people really don’t like grim batol or dawn breaker and want to never do that dungeon. (and if they do make changes they should make a system that is best for everyone)
I definitely get that, the tank/healer thing is a problem and then maybe by better participation the system as is would be better. But even for tanks/healers (i main healer) – I had to wait 1hr 40 minutes to get into 1 key this morning.
I definitely think it’s a combo of both. I think they should try to make the system not as tilting to lose in, but then also take the pressure off some roles, if thats effecting a bunch of people.
You cant change what works on that type of extremes in this game.
If a player pugs 4/8 Mythic raid because some pugs teams are able to do it, he should not expect to get CE in a random pug raid, nor feel that the game sucks just because he cant and its close impossible to achieve, those players get into a grp and work together.
Same thing goes to high keys (15+), sure they can be done being pugged, just like in theory a Myth pugd raid can also be done, but in practice its a different story.
My goal was to dismantle your comparison as it wasn’t fair.
Also, your case is quite unique due to the level of difficulty of your keys.
I believe at your stage it’s a natural occurrence to lack players to run with.
At that stage, I would personally either find a consistent group, or find another activity in game/life.
I just don’t think that past 14th keys it’s fair to blame the game.
Yea I totally get that, I could have been more explicate.
I do think the “punishment” that m+ players go through should be brought down to what arena/mythic raiders experience.
Spending 15-30min of downtime between m+ keys or games I feel would be a great improvement from what is currently out there.
My personal anecdote is that (at my level) its like 1hr 30min on average.
– But I do what to emphasize alot of my messages in this thread are built around making the experience better for every key level. I think a lot of folks feel a lot of pressure in the current system. Lots of the pugs I get into (even on my main) in the 8-10 lvl can be quite hostile when things don’t go well. I think a lot of that has to do with how punishing the system is.
I think it’s helpful for people to know, and hopefully the developers to see… We’re a huge consumer of the content and of the systems. Ideally, we can point out friction points in the system, and making a more frictionless system would encourage more people to play.
Rarely you meet reasonable people on these forums.
I see what you are saying in regard to the punishment.
I think the punishment is fair.
I think it comes down to people’s expectations of themselves and how the events suppose to unfold in their mind vs reality.
I believe, even if the punishment wasn’t as it is, the complains and toxicity would continue at the same rate.
Again, what I am saying is subjective and I’m not claiming it to be the truth.
I see your points.
You’re probably right here. It’s an MMO people are going to be toxic.
I do think if depleting your key wasn’t as bad, people would have more of the “well okay go next” mentality, rather than the “… That’s enough for today…” mentality. Maybe that would bring some of the toxicity down too, because people don’t feel that systemic pressure as much.
As for punishment - yea I am totally willing to accept that at my level it’s going to be more punishing because there just will never be as many players. Like how for Gold players in a league game, match making might be 5 minutes, but for diamonds it might be 30.
But 1 hr and 30… thats a bit much, and I love this game. I think it should be better, sure, but I love it. I just wish I could play it sometimes haha.
What impassioned me to make this post is even on my 611 mage, finding an 8 can take like 30-40 minutes. Running my key can be poor too. I felt like the poor experience is shared amongst all players.